15 ms·

Handheld two-way radios for preppers and other curious folks

131 points by wglb 6y ago

mofosyne 6y ago
Other alternative is to consider meshtastic . It's basically SMS like modem using Lora.
underseacables 6y ago
Interesting, but complicated. It would be easier to just get your amateur radio license and build out from there. Granted you’re getting a license from the FCC to operate, which might upset certain preppers, but in terms of cost and availability of equipment, the amateur radio route is much more direct and cost-effective.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  Isn’t a handheld radio an “amateur” radio? Or is there a nuanced distinction between the two? It also does seem odd that this requires licensing. Why is that? And if you were not licensed how would they even identify you or track you down?
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    Answer 9 gives some info on which radios require a license to operate. Direction finding/fox hunting is a way to get caught. In reality, if you’re not causing trouble, you’re never going to get looked for, of course.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    ‘Amateur’ in this context means ‘requires a licence to operate but at lower tier of licence’. So no most handheld radios aren’t ‘amateur’.
  - wiml 6y ago
    "Amateur radio" or "ham radio" is a class of noncommercial radio licensees in the US and many other countries. There are reserved radio bands, various rights and obligations, and perhaps most importantly a large community of people using similar technology. Think of it as the open-source version of CB radio. The radio might be handheld or vehicle-mounted or a fixed installation occupying hundreds of feet on a side. (Conversely just because something is handheld doesn't make it amateur: your cell phone is a commercial radio service; walkie-talkies and FRS and wifi are unlicensed services; etc. Type-approval is different from licensing.)
  - Mister_X 6y ago
    Q: "And if you were not licensed how would they even identify you or track you down?" A: Ham radio uses a frequency band plan that everyone agrees to adhere to, so if someone shows up on those frequencies who doesn't belong, we will notice. Hams are also required to broadcast their FCC allocated "call sign" about every 10 minutes, or when starting and ending a transmission, if you're not doing that, then licensed Hams will notice. If you think you're being "clever" and make up a fake call-sign, we will notice, we know who the regulars on the Ham frequencies are in our geographic areas. If you're producing "harmful interference", i.e. illegally broadcasting on a licensed Amateur Radio Band, then some of "us" Hams will get together and Track your signal, via triangulation, and eventually we Will find your transmitting location. Then we notify the FCC, and eventually... they will contact you, and you Will stop, or face legal consequences. A lot of Hams enjoy tracking down hidden transmitters, we even set up "games" to practice doing just that, we call it a "Hare & Hound" practice. I'm quite good at tracking down harmful interference on the VHF Ham bands. Ham radio has a lot of places to explore, but do avoid the H/F bands, it's full of "rag chewers", and you'll want to poke out your eardrums if you listen to them. 73, KE6---
    - underseacables 6y ago
      Oh, a 2x3. Did you get into Amateur Radio late?
      - Mister_X 6y ago
        Oh look... another amateur radio Snob. I'm sure you'll also want to belittle me because I'm a lowely Tech, thats usually how commenters like you follow up.
        jlgaddis 6y ago
        On the other hand, I don't care which license class you are, whether you passed a code test or not, or even if you just got your ticket yesterday. Welcome to the hobby, it needs more folks like you (if nothing else, it'll help out the signal-to-noise ratio!).
- maxerickson 6y ago
  What in the link are you responding to?
rreichel03 6y ago
This is an area I've been interested in learning more about for a while (not for prepping, just learning). Are there any good resources for getting started with ham radio? I've been looking for a guide that can explain the math and physics behind it along with the electronics.
- justin66 6y ago
  The ARRL publishes books that would be of interest. > I've been looking for a guide that can explain the math and physics behind it along with the electronics. Interesting. I expect that if the physics in one of their books about, for example, antennas is not oriented towards math and physics enough for your liking, you’ll at least get some direction as to what part of a real physics textbook you need to study.
- cweagans 6y ago
  http://www.arrl.org/shop/Ham-Radio-License-Manual/ http://www.arrl.org/shop/Ham-Radio-License-Manual/ This is really all you need to get started. I was 14 when I first got my license - I used an earlier iteration of this book to self study. It’s really straightforward. Feel free to email with any questions! Always glad to help people get started in ham radio.
  - curiousfab 6y ago
    I will additionally suggest the "ARRL Handbook" (there's a new edition every year - mine was 2001 and I guess there is no need to get the latest one), from which I learned everything about electronics, antennas and radio propagation during my high school years. It not only enabled me to build and experiment with ham radio transceivers, but also gave me quite a head start into my university studies of EE.
    - cweagans 6y ago
      ARRL Handbook is great, but I would suggest picking it up after someone has their license. Personally, I found it really frustrating to have a gigantic book full of interesting things that I wasn’t legally allowed to do - it was a much better book after I had my license :)
swiley 6y ago
Where I used to live no one plowed the road so every time it snowed my dad to drive his bobcat (he's one of those tech workers that owns machinery "for fun") down an hilly icy road with huge ravines on each side and no cell signal. After we both got our HAM license he would carry one of these cheap 2m handhelds with him and could check in with us every so many minutes. They work way better than FRS radios (much more power, longer antennas, more bandwidth (FRS is almost unintelligible by comparison.)) Some people feel like HAM has no practical use outside of emergencies but there are definitely places where the owners of the spectrum have failed to build the infrastructure needed to use it.
- jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
  HAM is still a very necessary tool for keeping in contact in the mountains and such. When I was younger I did some SCCA rally events. Those events would be impossible without the volunteer HAM operators that show up and set up temporary relays on a couple of the biggest foothills in the race area. Cell coverage is just too spotty, and satcom stuff is just too expensive. My understanding is that search and rescue uses the same approach for the same reasons.
  - thangalin 6y ago
    > HAM is still a very necessary tool for keeping in contact in the mountains and such. Depends on the location. The company I work for produces a mountain-top repeater[0] series. Hundreds of them are distributed throughout the Rocky Mountains in British Columbia, providing an expansive coverage for handheld devices. If you're curious about what an installation site looks like atop a mountain, check out pages 38-39 in an older product guide[1]. [0]: https://codancomms.com/products/mt-4e-series https://codancomms.com/products/mt-4e-series [1]: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/38724760/land-mobile-radio-system-training-and-design-guide-daniels- https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/38724760/land-mobile-...
    - deleted 6y ago
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    - 6y ago
rsync 6y ago
Would somebody please, please produce a very high quality, rugged, handheld radio case that can hold a raspberry pi zero and an RTL-SDR ? So, not a computer, not a smartphone - a plain old motorola-esque handheld radio with physical buttons and a simple screen - but underneath, it's an extensible SDR platform. Why doesn't this exist ?
- swirepe 6y ago
  Have you tried a hackrf portapack? It's an order of magnitude more expensive than a pi zero and an rtl-sdr, but it might be close to what you want.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Rugged cases are extremely expensive and become affordable only through economics of scale that exceed an enthusiast project. You could pay for custom plastic molding and waterproofing if you wanted to, but the price would shock you. Look at how even projects as relatively large and established as Pine64 products are unable to get quality cases without becoming too expensive for what its community is willing to pay.
- ampdepolymerase 6y ago
  You can always design one yourself. Analogue Devices offers many chips that are SDRs-on-a-wafer. The AD9361 is a particularly popular chip.
  - rsync 6y ago
    No, the innards already exist - a raspberry pi zero and a rtl-sdr. I am suggesting a nicely made, high quality, plastic case - with buttons and screen - that has slots and mounting screws inside to insert a raspi zero and a USB dongle inside. I quite like the standard handheld radio form factor - like this: https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/mototrbo/portable-radios/xpr-7000e-series.html#tabproductinfo https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-rad... ... I just want a linux computer and an RTL-SDR inside ...
Mister_X 6y ago
I live in a remote area where Ham radio is still a vital communication protocol during power outages and such, but lately groups of non Hams (preppers, and such) have decided that buying those cheap FRS radios will serve them during an emergency. And some of those groups are pushing people to get their FCC Ham license and use VHF radios because they can be used over greater distances. Unfortunately, almost none of those folks are actually practicing with their radios to become comfortable using them. So when an emergency occurs, they have no idea of what to do on the air, and they will cause harmful interference because they are willfully ignorant of the local communication protocols already set up by generations of Ham operators. They will be a part of the problem, not a part of the solution. I put on a "Jump Bag" presentation every year in my small town, and I warn folks that if they get an FRS radio or Ham radio, that they need to practice with it and become comfortable using it, otherwise they will not be helpful during an emergency, and will cause problems with the coordinated Hams. Aside from that, I also recommend against getting an FRS radio unless they are willing to make sure the batteries in them are replaced on a regular basis, otherwise when the emergency occurs, they will find a dead FRS radio with corroded battery contacts, basically a paperweight and nothing more. 73, KE6---
- 99_00 6y ago
  Are they lacking technical skills or social/tribal knowledge or both?
  - Mister_X 6y ago
    There are plenty of Hams willing to help them, but this subset of people feel they don't "need" to practice, they can't grok the consequences of their inaction. I've had many discussions with these type of folks, and for them it's almost like a merit badge to get a radio and talk it up, but they never learn how to use them because they don't feel they need to. They just don't want to take the time to become familiar/proficient with that particular "tool". It's quite similar to some gun owners who purchase a handgun and then never learn how to safely handle it, and never go to a range and practice with it. It appears to me, to be a cultural/generational problem of over assessment of their own abilities.
bretuls 6y ago
Is there any commercial radio for private use with proper encryption? It seems the only ones you can find are limited to 48 bit key or so.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  There's not much market for them, that's the issue. You can't use much transmit power on a free license. And hams are not allowed to use encryption as a licensing condition. The idea behind this is that you're a community. It's not really meant for private communication. Some business radios offer excellent encryption but can only be used with an expensive commercial license. The Family radio service ones are more for like walky talky use on the go where encryption isn't so important, and they have more limited range.
  - userbinator 6y ago
    And hams are not allowed to use encryption as a licensing condition. But are they allowed to use steganography...? Same difference, really.
    - Mister_X 6y ago
      I assume you mean Digital Modes? And it's not the same, because anyone can "read" the digital message with the same codec, encription can't be, unless one has the key.
    - GekkePrutser 6y ago
      Not really either no. Of course by its very nature steganography is hidden. So it's hard to detect. Really the communication we can have is quite restricted. The same reason we're not allowed to broadcast 'radio programs' as such (with the exception of the weekly news reading etc). Some countries also prohibit political or religious discussion. The license is meant to stimulate research and technical exploration. If you're looking for ways around it, you should consider whether this is really the hobby for you, as you probably want it for something it's not intended for. It's not a "production" communication service. It's a chance to build and explore technology. There are some exceptions though like authentication and control systems for things like amateur satellites and repeaters. The same in emergencies: Encrypted emergency comms is allowed, such as passing personal messages from disaster-stricken areas. Of course things like personal details of survivors are not passed in the clear. But during normal ham operation these things are not allowed and for good reason.
ryanmarsh 6y ago
I know the Baofeng UV5R's are cheap but hear me out. I've gotten some great use out of mine. Lots of preppers have these. Because they're so ubiquitous parts and know-how are easy to come by. If you want to buy radio that you're never going to use, or probably won't take the time to learn, get the Baofeng and save your money. Don't wait for "perfect". Good enough is better than nothing when the SHTF.
- heelix 6y ago
  Wait... the UV5R is a HAM radio? I'm totally naïve to the HAM and with the zombie apocalypse continuing, got the time to spend on those bucket list items. These things are only $35 bucks! That is screw around money. At some point, I'll need to deal with getting a radio license for doing some GA flights into Canada. Any chance this would pick up the 100 MHz bands (possibly using the term wrong) to pick up aviation ATIS?
  - jcrawfordor 6y ago
    The relationship between dubiously certified imported radios (e.g. Baofeng) and US radio services is a complex one. Baofeng products are radios which are not exactly any "type" of radio, and are technically illegal for most applications, but are dubiously legal in some cases for amateur radio use (this relates to an odd detail of FCC regulations with regards to type certification of devices, some Baofeng models are legal but others are not). The bottom line is that it's complicated, but they are capable of receiving and transmitting on amateur bands and they are very cheap, so they are often used for that purpose. This requires some caution as Baofeng models are more properly intended for business-band use (but are usually not certifiable for that purpose in the US) and so do things like default to wideband. A lengthier explanation is that, put somewhat simply and as a result somewhat incorrectly, in the amateur radio service the certification belongs to the operator, while in most other services the certification belongs to the radio. This means that any radio may be used in the amateur service if it is operated by a licensed individual, which is useful since amateur radio operators will often make use of hand-built radios or radios manufactured for other services and modified. From this perspective, it is legal for a licensed amateur operator to use any arbitrary radio. However, it is generally not legal to sell any radio which is not certified under some part of the FCC regulations. Most Baofeng models have never been certified under any part of the FCC regulations and cannot be for various reasons (e.g. face programmability which is prohibited for most land mobile services). This results in a bit of a "fruit of a poison tree" situation: while it is not necessarily illegal for a licensed amateur operator to use a UV-5R, that UV-5R was mostly likely sold in violation of the regulations. FCC enforcement on this issue has been very lax, but the action taken recently against Rugged Radios (a reseller of Baofengs) suggests to some that the FCC may be intending to clamp down. There is some practical implication as some independent labs and amateurs have concluded that Baofeng models do not meet FCC regulations with regards to spurious emissions and harmonics and therefore may interfere with licensed use of bands. Aviation radio is wideband AM for historic reasons, most cheap handhelds like Baofeng models are FM only. Fortunately dedicated aviation handhelds are fairly inexpensive and can be found with useful features like aviation dual plugs for your headset and even VOR display.
kubatyszko 6y ago
FYI, Lcamtuf's callsign seems to be K7TUF. Enjoy ;)
Mister_X 6y ago
Sorry OP, got distracted reading the great comments. If someone really wants to have communications ability beyond land lines and cell phones, which often Fail under emergency conditions, then for some people I recommend spending the time and effort in getting an Amateur (Ham) Radio License. FRS radios are for local, close-by communications like inside theme parks, County Fairs and such, and have limited practicality in an emergency situation for several reasons. But, Ham Radio, specifically the 2 Meter band, is a network with established emergency communications protocols that save lives every year all over the world, and it's all run and maintained by Volunteers! It can also be used for non commercial, personal communications, but it's not like a cell phone which is mostly private, so anyone with a similar radio or radio scanner can listen in to your Ham radio conversations. It's akin to talking to a friend in public or a restaurant. Once one learns the Ham radio communication protocols, it's an amazing radio service to belong to, and if one is intellectually curious, you can follow multiple paths of interest within it, far beyond mere personal or emergency communications. But, one has to learn and be comfortable with the Tool, because your Radio won't save you if you don't know how to use it. For instance, changing the transmit and receive frequency during a stressful emergency, or actually knowing how long you can use it before the battery is depleted, and do you have spares, and are they kept charged? If Not, you are back to being a part of the problem instead of the solution. One can't be "the Hero" without planning and practicing beforehand, so learn the tool of the trade, so to speak, spend several months using and getting to know your radio. Spend a lot of time on the air talking to other Hams, learn their call signs and the language of Ham Radio, and once you are "there" you'll be able to back off your on air activities some, but will be able to react instantly, without pressure, to any emergency you find yourself in. Practice makes perfect, truly applies to Ham radio under stressful emergency conditions. So my long winded advice is... Don't get your Ham license unless you are willing to put in the time to learn how to use it without referring to the manual.
Chris2048 6y ago
> Some imported DMR radios do support AES encryption, but using it can get you in trouble if you're caught. What would be the specific crime & punishment for this?
- PeterisP 6y ago
  The Communications act asserts penalties for operating a transmitter that violates the requirements https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/95.313 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/95.313 ; in general, that would mean fines assuming that you stop the violation, but in certain cases imprisonment is an option.
nullc 6y ago
"Handheld" is overly constraining if range is a concern. A radio you can carry on a bag and an antenna you can carry in another bag can work similar stations 50 miles away on VHF if you're willing to go up a tall hill on each side and elevate the antennas with telescoping poles. Similarly for (unreliable) worldwide communication on HF (with the antenna being a roll of wire). A luggable or car mounted radio is orders of magnitude better than anything you could handhold.
- wglb 6y ago
  Likely 10 db
mleonhard 6y ago
> It is also worth noting that many cell towers and virtually all telco central offices have backup power, so you do not necessarily lose the ability to communicate the moment the lights go out on your block. One day in 2017, power went out in my neighborhood in San Francisco. My building's fiber (Webpass) stopped working. Shockingly, my mobile phone service (Verizon) stopped working completely. It showed 4 bars but no data would get through, not even SMS. I realized that the mobile providers are happy to provide zero disaster resilience. I expected that a local cell would refuse connections when it loses its uplinks, then handsets could connect to nearby cells or other company's networks. But no, the local Verizon cell captured my handset and provided no service. Is there any way to blacklist a GSM cell on iOS?
- hansel_der 6y ago
  > Is there any way to blacklist a GSM cell on iOS? i doubt that very much but would be happy to be proven wrong. even on custom-rom android i dont recall such capability.
ficklepickle 6y ago
The artificial bandwidth and encryption limitations really reduce the use cases. My brother is a HAM, but it is so boring. People making contact, but no content. Its basically metadata only. "Can you hear me now? Good". It's one thing if you have another hobby it enables, like off-roading or back-country stuff. But radio for the sake of radio I do not understand. TL;DR - I'm a huge nerd but I just can't get into amateur radio because it bores me terribly.
rapjr9 6y ago
Mesh p2p networks do not scale to more than a few hundred nodes sending sparse small messages, unless you can add base stations scattered around that have a more robust power source. However, some people in many areas have generators or can use their car to power their cellphone, which could act as a base station. So why don't cellphones have an emergency mode that lets them 1) send+receive p2p text messages using the cellular radio 2) lets them relay p2p text messages if the cellphone detects that it is plugged into a power source? Seems like this could be really useful when power is out over wide areas.

131 points by wglb 6y ago

Other alternative is to consider meshtastic . It's basically SMS like modem using Lora.

Interesting, but complicated. It would be easier to just get your amateur radio license and build out from there. Granted you’re getting a license from the FCC to operate, which might upset certain preppers, but in terms of cost and availability of equipment, the amateur radio route is much more direct and cost-effective.

throwawaysea 6y ago
Isn’t a handheld radio an “amateur” radio? Or is there a nuanced distinction between the two? It also does seem odd that this requires licensing. Why is that? And if you were not licensed how would they even identify you or track you down?
- sokoloff 6y ago
  Answer 9 gives some info on which radios require a license to operate. Direction finding/fox hunting is a way to get caught. In reality, if you’re not causing trouble, you’re never going to get looked for, of course.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  ‘Amateur’ in this context means ‘requires a licence to operate but at lower tier of licence’. So no most handheld radios aren’t ‘amateur’.
- wiml 6y ago
  "Amateur radio" or "ham radio" is a class of noncommercial radio licensees in the US and many other countries. There are reserved radio bands, various rights and obligations, and perhaps most importantly a large community of people using similar technology. Think of it as the open-source version of CB radio. The radio might be handheld or vehicle-mounted or a fixed installation occupying hundreds of feet on a side. (Conversely just because something is handheld doesn't make it amateur: your cell phone is a commercial radio service; walkie-talkies and FRS and wifi are unlicensed services; etc. Type-approval is different from licensing.)
- Mister_X 6y ago
  Q: "And if you were not licensed how would they even identify you or track you down?" A: Ham radio uses a frequency band plan that everyone agrees to adhere to, so if someone shows up on those frequencies who doesn't belong, we will notice. Hams are also required to broadcast their FCC allocated "call sign" about every 10 minutes, or when starting and ending a transmission, if you're not doing that, then licensed Hams will notice. If you think you're being "clever" and make up a fake call-sign, we will notice, we know who the regulars on the Ham frequencies are in our geographic areas. If you're producing "harmful interference", i.e. illegally broadcasting on a licensed Amateur Radio Band, then some of "us" Hams will get together and Track your signal, via triangulation, and eventually we Will find your transmitting location. Then we notify the FCC, and eventually... they will contact you, and you Will stop, or face legal consequences. A lot of Hams enjoy tracking down hidden transmitters, we even set up "games" to practice doing just that, we call it a "Hare & Hound" practice. I'm quite good at tracking down harmful interference on the VHF Ham bands. Ham radio has a lot of places to explore, but do avoid the H/F bands, it's full of "rag chewers", and you'll want to poke out your eardrums if you listen to them. 73, KE6---
  - underseacables 6y ago
    Oh, a 2x3. Did you get into Amateur Radio late?
    - Mister_X 6y ago
      Oh look... another amateur radio Snob. I'm sure you'll also want to belittle me because I'm a lowely Tech, thats usually how commenters like you follow up.
      - jlgaddis 6y ago
        On the other hand, I don't care which license class you are, whether you passed a code test or not, or even if you just got your ticket yesterday. Welcome to the hobby, it needs more folks like you (if nothing else, it'll help out the signal-to-noise ratio!).
maxerickson 6y ago
What in the link are you responding to?

rreichel03 6y ago

This is an area I've been interested in learning more about for a while (not for prepping, just learning). Are there any good resources for getting started with ham radio? I've been looking for a guide that can explain the math and physics behind it along with the electronics.

justin66 6y ago
The ARRL publishes books that would be of interest. > I've been looking for a guide that can explain the math and physics behind it along with the electronics. Interesting. I expect that if the physics in one of their books about, for example, antennas is not oriented towards math and physics enough for your liking, you’ll at least get some direction as to what part of a real physics textbook you need to study.
cweagans 6y ago
http://www.arrl.org/shop/Ham-Radio-License-Manual/ http://www.arrl.org/shop/Ham-Radio-License-Manual/ This is really all you need to get started. I was 14 when I first got my license - I used an earlier iteration of this book to self study. It’s really straightforward. Feel free to email with any questions! Always glad to help people get started in ham radio.
- curiousfab 6y ago
  I will additionally suggest the "ARRL Handbook" (there's a new edition every year - mine was 2001 and I guess there is no need to get the latest one), from which I learned everything about electronics, antennas and radio propagation during my high school years. It not only enabled me to build and experiment with ham radio transceivers, but also gave me quite a head start into my university studies of EE.
  - cweagans 6y ago
    ARRL Handbook is great, but I would suggest picking it up after someone has their license. Personally, I found it really frustrating to have a gigantic book full of interesting things that I wasn’t legally allowed to do - it was a much better book after I had my license :)

swiley 6y ago

Where I used to live no one plowed the road so every time it snowed my dad to drive his bobcat (he's one of those tech workers that owns machinery "for fun") down an hilly icy road with huge ravines on each side and no cell signal. After we both got our HAM license he would carry one of these cheap 2m handhelds with him and could check in with us every so many minutes. They work way better than FRS radios (much more power, longer antennas, more bandwidth (FRS is almost unintelligible by comparison.)) Some people feel like HAM has no practical use outside of emergencies but there are definitely places where the owners of the spectrum have failed to build the infrastructure needed to use it.

jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
HAM is still a very necessary tool for keeping in contact in the mountains and such. When I was younger I did some SCCA rally events. Those events would be impossible without the volunteer HAM operators that show up and set up temporary relays on a couple of the biggest foothills in the race area. Cell coverage is just too spotty, and satcom stuff is just too expensive. My understanding is that search and rescue uses the same approach for the same reasons.
- thangalin 6y ago
  > HAM is still a very necessary tool for keeping in contact in the mountains and such. Depends on the location. The company I work for produces a mountain-top repeater[0] series. Hundreds of them are distributed throughout the Rocky Mountains in British Columbia, providing an expansive coverage for handheld devices. If you're curious about what an installation site looks like atop a mountain, check out pages 38-39 in an older product guide[1]. [0]: https://codancomms.com/products/mt-4e-series https://codancomms.com/products/mt-4e-series [1]: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/38724760/land-mobile-radio-system-training-and-design-guide-daniels- https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/38724760/land-mobile-...
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rsync 6y ago

Would somebody please, please produce a very high quality, rugged, handheld radio case that can hold a raspberry pi zero and an RTL-SDR ? So, not a computer, not a smartphone - a plain old motorola-esque handheld radio with physical buttons and a simple screen - but underneath, it's an extensible SDR platform. Why doesn't this exist ?

swirepe 6y ago
Have you tried a hackrf portapack? It's an order of magnitude more expensive than a pi zero and an rtl-sdr, but it might be close to what you want.
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Rugged cases are extremely expensive and become affordable only through economics of scale that exceed an enthusiast project. You could pay for custom plastic molding and waterproofing if you wanted to, but the price would shock you. Look at how even projects as relatively large and established as Pine64 products are unable to get quality cases without becoming too expensive for what its community is willing to pay.
ampdepolymerase 6y ago
You can always design one yourself. Analogue Devices offers many chips that are SDRs-on-a-wafer. The AD9361 is a particularly popular chip.
- rsync 6y ago
  No, the innards already exist - a raspberry pi zero and a rtl-sdr. I am suggesting a nicely made, high quality, plastic case - with buttons and screen - that has slots and mounting screws inside to insert a raspi zero and a USB dongle inside. I quite like the standard handheld radio form factor - like this: https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/mototrbo/portable-radios/xpr-7000e-series.html#tabproductinfo https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-rad... ... I just want a linux computer and an RTL-SDR inside ...

Mister_X 6y ago

I live in a remote area where Ham radio is still a vital communication protocol during power outages and such, but lately groups of non Hams (preppers, and such) have decided that buying those cheap FRS radios will serve them during an emergency. And some of those groups are pushing people to get their FCC Ham license and use VHF radios because they can be used over greater distances. Unfortunately, almost none of those folks are actually practicing with their radios to become comfortable using them. So when an emergency occurs, they have no idea of what to do on the air, and they will cause harmful interference because they are willfully ignorant of the local communication protocols already set up by generations of Ham operators. They will be a part of the problem, not a part of the solution. I put on a "Jump Bag" presentation every year in my small town, and I warn folks that if they get an FRS radio or Ham radio, that they need to practice with it and become comfortable using it, otherwise they will not be helpful during an emergency, and will cause problems with the coordinated Hams. Aside from that, I also recommend against getting an FRS radio unless they are willing to make sure the batteries in them are replaced on a regular basis, otherwise when the emergency occurs, they will find a dead FRS radio with corroded battery contacts, basically a paperweight and nothing more. 73, KE6---

99_00 6y ago
Are they lacking technical skills or social/tribal knowledge or both?
- Mister_X 6y ago
  There are plenty of Hams willing to help them, but this subset of people feel they don't "need" to practice, they can't grok the consequences of their inaction. I've had many discussions with these type of folks, and for them it's almost like a merit badge to get a radio and talk it up, but they never learn how to use them because they don't feel they need to. They just don't want to take the time to become familiar/proficient with that particular "tool". It's quite similar to some gun owners who purchase a handgun and then never learn how to safely handle it, and never go to a range and practice with it. It appears to me, to be a cultural/generational problem of over assessment of their own abilities.

bretuls 6y ago

Is there any commercial radio for private use with proper encryption? It seems the only ones you can find are limited to 48 bit key or so.

GekkePrutser 6y ago
There's not much market for them, that's the issue. You can't use much transmit power on a free license. And hams are not allowed to use encryption as a licensing condition. The idea behind this is that you're a community. It's not really meant for private communication. Some business radios offer excellent encryption but can only be used with an expensive commercial license. The Family radio service ones are more for like walky talky use on the go where encryption isn't so important, and they have more limited range.
- userbinator 6y ago
  And hams are not allowed to use encryption as a licensing condition. But are they allowed to use steganography...? Same difference, really.
  - Mister_X 6y ago
    I assume you mean Digital Modes? And it's not the same, because anyone can "read" the digital message with the same codec, encription can't be, unless one has the key.
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    Not really either no. Of course by its very nature steganography is hidden. So it's hard to detect. Really the communication we can have is quite restricted. The same reason we're not allowed to broadcast 'radio programs' as such (with the exception of the weekly news reading etc). Some countries also prohibit political or religious discussion. The license is meant to stimulate research and technical exploration. If you're looking for ways around it, you should consider whether this is really the hobby for you, as you probably want it for something it's not intended for. It's not a "production" communication service. It's a chance to build and explore technology. There are some exceptions though like authentication and control systems for things like amateur satellites and repeaters. The same in emergencies: Encrypted emergency comms is allowed, such as passing personal messages from disaster-stricken areas. Of course things like personal details of survivors are not passed in the clear. But during normal ham operation these things are not allowed and for good reason.

ryanmarsh 6y ago

I know the Baofeng UV5R's are cheap but hear me out. I've gotten some great use out of mine. Lots of preppers have these. Because they're so ubiquitous parts and know-how are easy to come by. If you want to buy radio that you're never going to use, or probably won't take the time to learn, get the Baofeng and save your money. Don't wait for "perfect". Good enough is better than nothing when the SHTF.

heelix 6y ago
Wait... the UV5R is a HAM radio? I'm totally naïve to the HAM and with the zombie apocalypse continuing, got the time to spend on those bucket list items. These things are only $35 bucks! That is screw around money. At some point, I'll need to deal with getting a radio license for doing some GA flights into Canada. Any chance this would pick up the 100 MHz bands (possibly using the term wrong) to pick up aviation ATIS?
- jcrawfordor 6y ago
  The relationship between dubiously certified imported radios (e.g. Baofeng) and US radio services is a complex one. Baofeng products are radios which are not exactly any "type" of radio, and are technically illegal for most applications, but are dubiously legal in some cases for amateur radio use (this relates to an odd detail of FCC regulations with regards to type certification of devices, some Baofeng models are legal but others are not). The bottom line is that it's complicated, but they are capable of receiving and transmitting on amateur bands and they are very cheap, so they are often used for that purpose. This requires some caution as Baofeng models are more properly intended for business-band use (but are usually not certifiable for that purpose in the US) and so do things like default to wideband. A lengthier explanation is that, put somewhat simply and as a result somewhat incorrectly, in the amateur radio service the certification belongs to the operator, while in most other services the certification belongs to the radio. This means that any radio may be used in the amateur service if it is operated by a licensed individual, which is useful since amateur radio operators will often make use of hand-built radios or radios manufactured for other services and modified. From this perspective, it is legal for a licensed amateur operator to use any arbitrary radio. However, it is generally not legal to sell any radio which is not certified under some part of the FCC regulations. Most Baofeng models have never been certified under any part of the FCC regulations and cannot be for various reasons (e.g. face programmability which is prohibited for most land mobile services). This results in a bit of a "fruit of a poison tree" situation: while it is not necessarily illegal for a licensed amateur operator to use a UV-5R, that UV-5R was mostly likely sold in violation of the regulations. FCC enforcement on this issue has been very lax, but the action taken recently against Rugged Radios (a reseller of Baofengs) suggests to some that the FCC may be intending to clamp down. There is some practical implication as some independent labs and amateurs have concluded that Baofeng models do not meet FCC regulations with regards to spurious emissions and harmonics and therefore may interfere with licensed use of bands. Aviation radio is wideband AM for historic reasons, most cheap handhelds like Baofeng models are FM only. Fortunately dedicated aviation handhelds are fairly inexpensive and can be found with useful features like aviation dual plugs for your headset and even VOR display.

kubatyszko 6y ago

FYI, Lcamtuf's callsign seems to be K7TUF. Enjoy ;)

Mister_X 6y ago

Sorry OP, got distracted reading the great comments. If someone really wants to have communications ability beyond land lines and cell phones, which often Fail under emergency conditions, then for some people I recommend spending the time and effort in getting an Amateur (Ham) Radio License. FRS radios are for local, close-by communications like inside theme parks, County Fairs and such, and have limited practicality in an emergency situation for several reasons. But, Ham Radio, specifically the 2 Meter band, is a network with established emergency communications protocols that save lives every year all over the world, and it's all run and maintained by Volunteers! It can also be used for non commercial, personal communications, but it's not like a cell phone which is mostly private, so anyone with a similar radio or radio scanner can listen in to your Ham radio conversations. It's akin to talking to a friend in public or a restaurant. Once one learns the Ham radio communication protocols, it's an amazing radio service to belong to, and if one is intellectually curious, you can follow multiple paths of interest within it, far beyond mere personal or emergency communications. But, one has to learn and be comfortable with the Tool, because your Radio won't save you if you don't know how to use it. For instance, changing the transmit and receive frequency during a stressful emergency, or actually knowing how long you can use it before the battery is depleted, and do you have spares, and are they kept charged? If Not, you are back to being a part of the problem instead of the solution. One can't be "the Hero" without planning and practicing beforehand, so learn the tool of the trade, so to speak, spend several months using and getting to know your radio. Spend a lot of time on the air talking to other Hams, learn their call signs and the language of Ham Radio, and once you are "there" you'll be able to back off your on air activities some, but will be able to react instantly, without pressure, to any emergency you find yourself in. Practice makes perfect, truly applies to Ham radio under stressful emergency conditions. So my long winded advice is... Don't get your Ham license unless you are willing to put in the time to learn how to use it without referring to the manual.

Chris2048 6y ago

> Some imported DMR radios do support AES encryption, but using it can get you in trouble if you're caught. What would be the specific crime & punishment for this?

PeterisP 6y ago
The Communications act asserts penalties for operating a transmitter that violates the requirements https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/95.313 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/95.313 ; in general, that would mean fines assuming that you stop the violation, but in certain cases imprisonment is an option.

nullc 6y ago

"Handheld" is overly constraining if range is a concern. A radio you can carry on a bag and an antenna you can carry in another bag can work similar stations 50 miles away on VHF if you're willing to go up a tall hill on each side and elevate the antennas with telescoping poles. Similarly for (unreliable) worldwide communication on HF (with the antenna being a roll of wire). A luggable or car mounted radio is orders of magnitude better than anything you could handhold.

wglb 6y ago
Likely 10 db

mleonhard 6y ago

> It is also worth noting that many cell towers and virtually all telco central offices have backup power, so you do not necessarily lose the ability to communicate the moment the lights go out on your block. One day in 2017, power went out in my neighborhood in San Francisco. My building's fiber (Webpass) stopped working. Shockingly, my mobile phone service (Verizon) stopped working completely. It showed 4 bars but no data would get through, not even SMS. I realized that the mobile providers are happy to provide zero disaster resilience. I expected that a local cell would refuse connections when it loses its uplinks, then handsets could connect to nearby cells or other company's networks. But no, the local Verizon cell captured my handset and provided no service. Is there any way to blacklist a GSM cell on iOS?

hansel_der 6y ago
> Is there any way to blacklist a GSM cell on iOS? i doubt that very much but would be happy to be proven wrong. even on custom-rom android i dont recall such capability.

ficklepickle 6y ago

The artificial bandwidth and encryption limitations really reduce the use cases. My brother is a HAM, but it is so boring. People making contact, but no content. Its basically metadata only. "Can you hear me now? Good". It's one thing if you have another hobby it enables, like off-roading or back-country stuff. But radio for the sake of radio I do not understand. TL;DR - I'm a huge nerd but I just can't get into amateur radio because it bores me terribly.

rapjr9 6y ago

Mesh p2p networks do not scale to more than a few hundred nodes sending sparse small messages, unless you can add base stations scattered around that have a more robust power source. However, some people in many areas have generators or can use their car to power their cellphone, which could act as a base station. So why don't cellphones have an emergency mode that lets them 1) send+receive p2p text messages using the cellular radio 2) lets them relay p2p text messages if the cellphone detects that it is plugged into a power source? Seems like this could be really useful when power is out over wide areas.