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What's interesting about skunkworks is much it gets invoked by people vs how much it actually happens in practice. We engineers love skunkworks: working on coo

by cdavid 6y ago

What's interesting about skunkworks is much it gets invoked by people vs how much it actually happens in practice. We engineers love skunkworks: working on cool stuff, without accountability and a lot of freedom ? Who would not want that ! But there are very few situations where this is sustainable, for reasons well explained by OP.

jiofih 6y ago
Strongly recommend reading the book - they had tons of accountability as critical projects were handed to them on tight deadlines. Yes, working on cool stuff, but delivering at an extremely high level.
- sgt101 6y ago
  The final accountability of someone dying if you screw up must weigh heavily on people designing aircraft. I think it would make me pretty diligent...
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
>We engineers love skunkworks: working on cool stuff, without accountability and a lot of freedom I'm pretty sure people who keep saying this have no idea what working at Skunkwork was actually like. If you read Ben Rich's book, which I recommend you do, you'll find out that they had tons of accountability, the more classified their projects were, the more they were drowning in paperwork. No employee was to be left alone with the blueprints and if one of two needed to go to the bathroom then the plans had to be locked in a safe during that time. Also, the hours of work and the stress they were under was insane as shit would break unexpectedly all the time. I'm sure this is not what engineers love, and what they tink they mean by Skunworks is cowboy coding and being paid handsomely to play like kindergarten kids in the sandbox with the latest shiny toys, while leaving work at 5 PM.
- sgt101 6y ago
  >I'm also pretty sure most engineers don't want this, and what hey actually want is cowboy coding, playing like kindergarten kids in the sandbox with the latest shiny toys, while leaving work at 5 PM. Nope. They want autonomy, mastery and purpose. They want to be able to apply what they know appropriately - not to be micromanaged or frustrated by instructions that make no sense. They want to be able to develop skills that make them valuable to their peers and their organisation - valuable enough to be secure and able to earn sufficient to protect their families. They want to know why they are doing the things that they are doing and to be able to believe that their efforts will contribute to something worthwhile. If you can provide that all your engineers will both love you and jump into a bonfire for you.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    Except for that last point, I agree. Maybe if it’s a tiny bonfire.
    - sgt101 6y ago
      I didn't say that it was alight...
- cdavid 6y ago
  I should have explained a bit better what I meant by accountability in that context: reduced direct oversight from general management, almost kinda "chinese wall" style. Besides the reasons given by OP, an issue w/ skunkworks is that it requires two things that happen much less often in practice than people like: you need very strong, skilled team, and the need for high impact that management believe cannot be achieved any other way. Similarly, at the heyday of xerox park, it sounds like Taylor was key to enable true, long term autonomy for his teams.

by cdavid 6y ago

jiofih 6y ago

Strongly recommend reading the book - they had tons of accountability as critical projects were handed to them on tight deadlines. Yes, working on cool stuff, but delivering at an extremely high level.

sgt101 6y ago
The final accountability of someone dying if you screw up must weigh heavily on people designing aircraft. I think it would make me pretty diligent...

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

>We engineers love skunkworks: working on cool stuff, without accountability and a lot of freedom I'm pretty sure people who keep saying this have no idea what working at Skunkwork was actually like. If you read Ben Rich's book, which I recommend you do, you'll find out that they had tons of accountability, the more classified their projects were, the more they were drowning in paperwork. No employee was to be left alone with the blueprints and if one of two needed to go to the bathroom then the plans had to be locked in a safe during that time. Also, the hours of work and the stress they were under was insane as shit would break unexpectedly all the time. I'm sure this is not what engineers love, and what they tink they mean by Skunworks is cowboy coding and being paid handsomely to play like kindergarten kids in the sandbox with the latest shiny toys, while leaving work at 5 PM.

sgt101 6y ago
>I'm also pretty sure most engineers don't want this, and what hey actually want is cowboy coding, playing like kindergarten kids in the sandbox with the latest shiny toys, while leaving work at 5 PM. Nope. They want autonomy, mastery and purpose. They want to be able to apply what they know appropriately - not to be micromanaged or frustrated by instructions that make no sense. They want to be able to develop skills that make them valuable to their peers and their organisation - valuable enough to be secure and able to earn sufficient to protect their families. They want to know why they are doing the things that they are doing and to be able to believe that their efforts will contribute to something worthwhile. If you can provide that all your engineers will both love you and jump into a bonfire for you.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  Except for that last point, I agree. Maybe if it’s a tiny bonfire.
  - sgt101 6y ago
    I didn't say that it was alight...
cdavid 6y ago
I should have explained a bit better what I meant by accountability in that context: reduced direct oversight from general management, almost kinda "chinese wall" style. Besides the reasons given by OP, an issue w/ skunkworks is that it requires two things that happen much less often in practice than people like: you need very strong, skilled team, and the need for high impact that management believe cannot be achieved any other way. Similarly, at the heyday of xerox park, it sounds like Taylor was key to enable true, long term autonomy for his teams.