6 ms·

I was kind of shocked at how hard it is to factory reset a MacBook. I had one at work and I had to pass it on and the guide is a multi step process which I mess

I was kind of shocked at how hard it is to factory reset a MacBook. I had one at work and I had to pass it on and the guide is a multi step process which I messed up the first time and ended up reinstalling with my user account still there. Had to start again which takes hours. Why does the recovery not just have a button called factory reset which unlinks your apple account, deletes the volume and then sets it all up like new.

tinyhitman 6y ago
While I'm not disagreeing that this should be possible to (easily) factory reset a device, it also shouldn't be possible for just _anyone_ with physical access to completely reset the device either. Easy resets also mean more interesting to steal
- ciupicri 6y ago
  Is it that hard to just corrupt the file system?
  - tinus_hn 6y ago
    Like iPhones, new Macs are linked to an account and you can’t activate a new installation without access to the account. This is a pretty strong theft deterrent. Of course this only works if you need access to the account to break this link.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- aulin 6y ago
  we used to say there's no security if you have physical access... any measure to protect physical access vulnerabilities is bound to cause annoyances and limit freedom of what you can do with your own devices sooner or later
- elcomet 6y ago
  Why though ? If someone wants to harm you, they can damage the hard drive enough so that the data is unreadable if they have physical access.
  - superhuzza 6y ago
    So that they can use/sell the stolen Macbook, which is much more common than stealing a Macbook to delete the data.
    - user-the-name 6y ago
      Erasing the drive doesn't let you do this, the Apple ID of the owner is stored elsewhere and you have to log in to restore the machine.
      - superhuzza 6y ago
        This was a response to a comment about a potential feature as described: "Why does the recovery not just have a button called factory reset which unlinks your apple account, deletes the volume and then sets it all up like new." So yes, it currently does not work like that. But such a feature would allow Macbooks to be easily stolen and reused by others.
        PurpleFoxy 6y ago
        The unlink stage would require your password. The recovery partition requires internet to reinstall already.
        josephg 6y ago
        Yep, just like it does on iPhones - where Apple has a button for this and it’s really easy. I’m sure a lot more iPhones get stolen than laptops every year, and I doubt the factory reset button behind its password prompt makes that any worse.
      - 6y ago
- PurpleFoxy 6y ago
  It should just ask for your Apple ID password when you do the reset. It’s not that hard. Honestly it should even be an option within the main OS
  - southerntofu 6y ago
    Why, though? Physical access to the hardware should prevent you from accessing existing files (encryption at rest) but should not prevent you from resetting/reusing the device. Does your fridge come with FridgeID? Or a book? Introducing such mechanisms is really hostile to users, especially poorer users of second-hand hardware who have to go through extra (shady) hoops to get a device running just because some rich Silicon Valley start-uppers thought locking hardware down was a feature.
    - lupire 6y ago
      Who is going to walk a away with my fridge? How about my car? Many users appreciate having anti-theft protections on their easy to physically-access devices, and very few need to wipe of the owner's account. It's great that you have a niche use case, but that doesn't make your case the priority over the main use cases.
      - southerntofu 6y ago
        > Who is going to walk a away with my fridge? People would steal your wallet, your jewelry... There's a lot more value to be extracted from a stolen credit card than from a "smart" phone. > It's great that you have a niche use case, but that doesn't make your case the priority over the main use cases. You're taking it the other way around. The common use case for first-world software developers is the niche use case for the rest of the world. In the rest of the world (i.e. the vast majority), who can't afford buying new luxury devices, people are more concerned with getting locked out after forgetting their password (or after their kids changed it) or about acquiring a second-hand device, than about "protecting" their device from thieves. Because this "protection" doesn't protect anything. Once your iPhone is stolen, it's gone. No iCloud lock is going to bring it back, so why prevent other, less-privileged folks from using it when you can't use it? That type of "mine or noone else's" capitalist mentality is actively harming users and destroying the environment https://www.ifixit.com/News/34072/apples-activation-lock-will-make-it-very-difficult-to-refurbish-macs https://www.ifixit.com/News/34072/apples-activation-lock-wil...
- southerntofu 6y ago
  I strongly disagree with your opinion. For economic reason, i'm using (and supporting many users from my neighborhood of) second-hand hardware. Some systems like Apple's make our life incredibly difficult and most times people will just have to pay a shady phone store to have the device they purchased unlocked, adding 20-30€ to the bill. It's important to note that most people are incredibly gullible when it comes to technology, and they won't hesitate to buy a second-hand iPhone (whether stolen or not) for a few bucks assuming they'll be able to use it, because that's what a phone does, only to find themselves trapped in iCloud lock. Locking devices does not protect users (contrary to encrypting the local storage), and does not deter anyone from stealing. It simply adds one layer of mafia to deal with (iCloud unlock shady companies) when you're just trying to find a second-hand phone.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - matthias509 6y ago
    Your statement regarding the lack of deterrence does not match reality. See https://transition.fcc.gov/bureaus/oet/tac/tacdocs/meeting12414/TAC-MDTP-Report-v1.0-FINAL-TAC-version.pdf https://transition.fcc.gov/bureaus/oet/tac/tacdocs/meeting12... "Similar to New York City, San Francisco also provides evidence that mobile device theft prevention technologies work. In 2009, Apple smartphones constituted the vast majority (69%) of smartphones stolen in San Francisco robberies; in the six months after Apple made Activation Lock available, iPhone robberies in San Francisco declined 38%."
  - dsabanin 6y ago
    You are not making any sense by saying it does not deter anyone from stealing. Sooner or later everyone will know that buying stolen Apple hardware is meaningless, and without a market to sell into, thiefs will be less interested in stealing it.
  - ska 6y ago
    > and does not deter anyone from stealing. This statement appears to be false, which I guess is the entire point. People absolutely should be able to sell a device second hand, so perhaps re-authentication should be easier and more obvious, but making stolen equipment harder to sell is a net win.
varispeed 6y ago
They obviously want people to buy a new one (and disposing of their current one) instead of doing a factory reset. If it is increasingly harder to do, this means that eventually factory reset will not be possible and you won't even be allowed to sell "your" mac when you want to switch or upgrade.
matwood 6y ago
Because of the anti-theft feature of Find My, there are steps but they are pretty straight forward. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201065 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201065 I've found the process is fast if you have a good internet connection to download macOS again. Otherwise, that's where it seems a lot of the time goes.
andrewmcwatters 6y ago
I recall the exact same scenario you're describing, and I'm usually meticulous when I use Disk Utility.
Solid_Applaud 6y ago
If you are reading this and you want to truly restore the internal drive to factory original state minus wear and you have a Macbook that is able to boot a Linux from USB: If you have nvme storage use blkdiscard to wipe it: https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/blkdiscard.8.html https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/blkdiscard.8.html Or nvme format <device> with the --ses option, see available ses options here: https://www.mankier.com/1/nvme-format https://www.mankier.com/1/nvme-format Otherwise use ATA Secure Erase with the suspend trick to unfreeze the drive: https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase
- wtallis 6y ago
  Adding on to this: blkdiscard should work fine for SATA or NVMe drives, if you just want to make the drive blank. SATA drives technically have the option of ignoring TRIM commands, but I'm not sure it was ever actually common for them to do so. Suspending and waking a PC to unlock a drive can be necessary for SATA or NVMe drives. SATA drives also give you the alternative of hot-swapping the drive, but that's not practical for consumer NVMe drives or consumer host systems.
liminalsunset 6y ago
There actually is a way to do this easily, and it only seems to work if you have FileVault enabled. Boot into recovery, when it asks for a password say youve forgotten it, you don't have a key, and click the resulting "Erase Mac" button. This will erase the drive properly removing the partitions, iirc.
- m1mac 6y ago
  Yeah, that's the right way to do it. You can do it without FileVault enabled, too. Enter `resetpassword` in Terminal, and the Erase Mac option is in the menu bar. I'll grant that this is poorly documented and not intuitive in the least. A secure erase and reinstall is a common task. It shouldn't require an obscure menu bar option or the use of Terminal.

tinyhitman 6y ago

While I'm not disagreeing that this should be possible to (easily) factory reset a device, it also shouldn't be possible for just _anyone_ with physical access to completely reset the device either. Easy resets also mean more interesting to steal

ciupicri 6y ago
Is it that hard to just corrupt the file system?
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  Like iPhones, new Macs are linked to an account and you can’t activate a new installation without access to the account. This is a pretty strong theft deterrent. Of course this only works if you need access to the account to break this link.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
aulin 6y ago
we used to say there's no security if you have physical access... any measure to protect physical access vulnerabilities is bound to cause annoyances and limit freedom of what you can do with your own devices sooner or later
elcomet 6y ago
Why though ? If someone wants to harm you, they can damage the hard drive enough so that the data is unreadable if they have physical access.
- superhuzza 6y ago
  So that they can use/sell the stolen Macbook, which is much more common than stealing a Macbook to delete the data.
  - user-the-name 6y ago
    Erasing the drive doesn't let you do this, the Apple ID of the owner is stored elsewhere and you have to log in to restore the machine.
    - superhuzza 6y ago
      This was a response to a comment about a potential feature as described: "Why does the recovery not just have a button called factory reset which unlinks your apple account, deletes the volume and then sets it all up like new." So yes, it currently does not work like that. But such a feature would allow Macbooks to be easily stolen and reused by others.
      - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
        The unlink stage would require your password. The recovery partition requires internet to reinstall already.
        josephg 6y ago
        Yep, just like it does on iPhones - where Apple has a button for this and it’s really easy. I’m sure a lot more iPhones get stolen than laptops every year, and I doubt the factory reset button behind its password prompt makes that any worse.
    - 6y ago
PurpleFoxy 6y ago
It should just ask for your Apple ID password when you do the reset. It’s not that hard. Honestly it should even be an option within the main OS
- southerntofu 6y ago
  Why, though? Physical access to the hardware should prevent you from accessing existing files (encryption at rest) but should not prevent you from resetting/reusing the device. Does your fridge come with FridgeID? Or a book? Introducing such mechanisms is really hostile to users, especially poorer users of second-hand hardware who have to go through extra (shady) hoops to get a device running just because some rich Silicon Valley start-uppers thought locking hardware down was a feature.
  - lupire 6y ago
    Who is going to walk a away with my fridge? How about my car? Many users appreciate having anti-theft protections on their easy to physically-access devices, and very few need to wipe of the owner's account. It's great that you have a niche use case, but that doesn't make your case the priority over the main use cases.
    - southerntofu 6y ago
      > Who is going to walk a away with my fridge? People would steal your wallet, your jewelry... There's a lot more value to be extracted from a stolen credit card than from a "smart" phone. > It's great that you have a niche use case, but that doesn't make your case the priority over the main use cases. You're taking it the other way around. The common use case for first-world software developers is the niche use case for the rest of the world. In the rest of the world (i.e. the vast majority), who can't afford buying new luxury devices, people are more concerned with getting locked out after forgetting their password (or after their kids changed it) or about acquiring a second-hand device, than about "protecting" their device from thieves. Because this "protection" doesn't protect anything. Once your iPhone is stolen, it's gone. No iCloud lock is going to bring it back, so why prevent other, less-privileged folks from using it when you can't use it? That type of "mine or noone else's" capitalist mentality is actively harming users and destroying the environment https://www.ifixit.com/News/34072/apples-activation-lock-will-make-it-very-difficult-to-refurbish-macs https://www.ifixit.com/News/34072/apples-activation-lock-wil...
southerntofu 6y ago
I strongly disagree with your opinion. For economic reason, i'm using (and supporting many users from my neighborhood of) second-hand hardware. Some systems like Apple's make our life incredibly difficult and most times people will just have to pay a shady phone store to have the device they purchased unlocked, adding 20-30€ to the bill. It's important to note that most people are incredibly gullible when it comes to technology, and they won't hesitate to buy a second-hand iPhone (whether stolen or not) for a few bucks assuming they'll be able to use it, because that's what a phone does, only to find themselves trapped in iCloud lock. Locking devices does not protect users (contrary to encrypting the local storage), and does not deter anyone from stealing. It simply adds one layer of mafia to deal with (iCloud unlock shady companies) when you're just trying to find a second-hand phone.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- matthias509 6y ago
  Your statement regarding the lack of deterrence does not match reality. See https://transition.fcc.gov/bureaus/oet/tac/tacdocs/meeting12414/TAC-MDTP-Report-v1.0-FINAL-TAC-version.pdf https://transition.fcc.gov/bureaus/oet/tac/tacdocs/meeting12... "Similar to New York City, San Francisco also provides evidence that mobile device theft prevention technologies work. In 2009, Apple smartphones constituted the vast majority (69%) of smartphones stolen in San Francisco robberies; in the six months after Apple made Activation Lock available, iPhone robberies in San Francisco declined 38%."
- dsabanin 6y ago
  You are not making any sense by saying it does not deter anyone from stealing. Sooner or later everyone will know that buying stolen Apple hardware is meaningless, and without a market to sell into, thiefs will be less interested in stealing it.
- ska 6y ago
  > and does not deter anyone from stealing. This statement appears to be false, which I guess is the entire point. People absolutely should be able to sell a device second hand, so perhaps re-authentication should be easier and more obvious, but making stolen equipment harder to sell is a net win.

varispeed 6y ago

They obviously want people to buy a new one (and disposing of their current one) instead of doing a factory reset. If it is increasingly harder to do, this means that eventually factory reset will not be possible and you won't even be allowed to sell "your" mac when you want to switch or upgrade.

matwood 6y ago

Because of the anti-theft feature of Find My, there are steps but they are pretty straight forward. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201065 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201065 I've found the process is fast if you have a good internet connection to download macOS again. Otherwise, that's where it seems a lot of the time goes.

andrewmcwatters 6y ago

I recall the exact same scenario you're describing, and I'm usually meticulous when I use Disk Utility.

Solid_Applaud 6y ago

If you are reading this and you want to truly restore the internal drive to factory original state minus wear and you have a Macbook that is able to boot a Linux from USB: If you have nvme storage use blkdiscard to wipe it: https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/blkdiscard.8.html https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/blkdiscard.8.html Or nvme format <device> with the --ses option, see available ses options here: https://www.mankier.com/1/nvme-format https://www.mankier.com/1/nvme-format Otherwise use ATA Secure Erase with the suspend trick to unfreeze the drive: https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase

wtallis 6y ago
Adding on to this: blkdiscard should work fine for SATA or NVMe drives, if you just want to make the drive blank. SATA drives technically have the option of ignoring TRIM commands, but I'm not sure it was ever actually common for them to do so. Suspending and waking a PC to unlock a drive can be necessary for SATA or NVMe drives. SATA drives also give you the alternative of hot-swapping the drive, but that's not practical for consumer NVMe drives or consumer host systems.

liminalsunset 6y ago

There actually is a way to do this easily, and it only seems to work if you have FileVault enabled. Boot into recovery, when it asks for a password say youve forgotten it, you don't have a key, and click the resulting "Erase Mac" button. This will erase the drive properly removing the partitions, iirc.

m1mac 6y ago
Yeah, that's the right way to do it. You can do it without FileVault enabled, too. Enter `resetpassword` in Terminal, and the Erase Mac option is in the menu bar. I'll grant that this is poorly documented and not intuitive in the least. A secure erase and reinstall is a common task. It shouldn't require an obscure menu bar option or the use of Terminal.