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> You don't need to 'sell' it for fiat. What matters is the purchasing parity power. It is money already. If it would be money I could go into just about every

> You don't need to 'sell' it for fiat. What matters is the purchasing parity power. It is money already. If it would be money I could go into just about every shop and purchase whatever I want for crypto. Which, obviously, I cannot. I don't only believe that crypto currencies are not money, but a huge pyramid scheme, which will result in many, many losers. Some of them having lost their life savings. I'm pretty sure that we vehemently disagree on that. But claiming that crypto is money really stretches the definition of money.

rfd4sgmk8u 6y ago
You literally can with payment cards do this today. The largest cryptocurrency exchange released a visa card where you can 'spend crypto'. I hate it when starbucks doesn't take my Krugerrands. What if cryptocurrencies can buy things that fiat currencies can not? Not everything is sold in a physical store. What if /the payment card industry/ converted cryptocurrency to local fiat for you? Right now there are several psuedobank providers that will do this (for years now), but we are talking about the card network themselves doing it themselves. Cryptocurrency does certainly stretch the definition of money. That's why it is exciting. Pyramid schemes are something different, pyramid schemes are about recruiting folks to pay you, and them getting them to repeat the same trick, with money funneling to the top. What you are thinking of is a Ponzi scheme, in which early investors are paid by later investors. Now this is where the definitions get blurred. Most asset classes act this way, and we don't consider SPY a ponzi, nor housing in major cities, nor the USD market itself. I am not trying to recruit, or even encourage you to convert your hard earned funds on magic internet money. But this dismissal of cryptocurrency is injurious to your future wealth.
- danparsonson 6y ago
  Payment cards that allow you to 'spend crypto' don't make cryptocurrencies money any more than a card that allowed you to spend gold or shares or cabbages (if you happened to own a warehouse full of those) would make those things money. BTC isn't 'real money' in the conventional sense as long as people aren't transacting in it directly, and I can't see a path towards people ever doing that - who wants the buying power of their savings and income to swing wildly from day to day? As far as I know that only happens in countries with serious economic problems.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > with payment cards do this today These cards don’t pay with cryptocurrencies. They pay out dollars and do finance on the back end to abstract away the credit and conversions. (They’re a great idea.)
swinglock 6y ago
If I go to any shop they not will not accept dollars. I still think it's money.
varajelle 6y ago
There are bitcoin credit card that exist. By your definition, USD isn't money either, because none of the shop here accept it. I first need to change it to euro to be able to pay in a shop, just like bitcoin. Bitcoin is not a pyramid scheme, because there is no promise of gain. Everyone is saying it is a risky asset and in that sense it's just like any other speculation.
- danparsonson 6y ago
  Where in the world do you not need to exchange BTC in order to buy things with it? Can you point to any shop where things are priced only in BTC? Your bitcoin credit card is just an on-the-fly exchange, that doesn't mean bitcoin is money.
  - varajelle 6y ago
    There was the silk road. I guess there are new market place pricing in bitcoin. Also some ransomware were you can buy your files back. Maybe there's just some libertarian community somewhere with a few people using bitcoin.

rfd4sgmk8u 6y ago

You literally can with payment cards do this today. The largest cryptocurrency exchange released a visa card where you can 'spend crypto'. I hate it when starbucks doesn't take my Krugerrands. What if cryptocurrencies can buy things that fiat currencies can not? Not everything is sold in a physical store. What if /the payment card industry/ converted cryptocurrency to local fiat for you? Right now there are several psuedobank providers that will do this (for years now), but we are talking about the card network themselves doing it themselves. Cryptocurrency does certainly stretch the definition of money. That's why it is exciting. Pyramid schemes are something different, pyramid schemes are about recruiting folks to pay you, and them getting them to repeat the same trick, with money funneling to the top. What you are thinking of is a Ponzi scheme, in which early investors are paid by later investors. Now this is where the definitions get blurred. Most asset classes act this way, and we don't consider SPY a ponzi, nor housing in major cities, nor the USD market itself. I am not trying to recruit, or even encourage you to convert your hard earned funds on magic internet money. But this dismissal of cryptocurrency is injurious to your future wealth.

danparsonson 6y ago
Payment cards that allow you to 'spend crypto' don't make cryptocurrencies money any more than a card that allowed you to spend gold or shares or cabbages (if you happened to own a warehouse full of those) would make those things money. BTC isn't 'real money' in the conventional sense as long as people aren't transacting in it directly, and I can't see a path towards people ever doing that - who wants the buying power of their savings and income to swing wildly from day to day? As far as I know that only happens in countries with serious economic problems.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> with payment cards do this today These cards don’t pay with cryptocurrencies. They pay out dollars and do finance on the back end to abstract away the credit and conversions. (They’re a great idea.)

swinglock 6y ago

If I go to any shop they not will not accept dollars. I still think it's money.

varajelle 6y ago

There are bitcoin credit card that exist. By your definition, USD isn't money either, because none of the shop here accept it. I first need to change it to euro to be able to pay in a shop, just like bitcoin. Bitcoin is not a pyramid scheme, because there is no promise of gain. Everyone is saying it is a risky asset and in that sense it's just like any other speculation.

danparsonson 6y ago
Where in the world do you not need to exchange BTC in order to buy things with it? Can you point to any shop where things are priced only in BTC? Your bitcoin credit card is just an on-the-fly exchange, that doesn't mean bitcoin is money.
- varajelle 6y ago
  There was the silk road. I guess there are new market place pricing in bitcoin. Also some ransomware were you can buy your files back. Maybe there's just some libertarian community somewhere with a few people using bitcoin.