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From 3rd Jan 2009 until today, "Many often lose everything" is not true. All holdings are in the money. We don't know of the future. BTC is no more a ponzi tha

From 3rd Jan 2009 until today, "Many often lose everything" is not true. All holdings are in the money. We don't know of the future. BTC is no more a ponzi than any asset class. Take a look at https://assetdash.com/ https://assetdash.com/ BTC is currently the 6th most valuable asset class by market cap (ignoring that market cap for coin isn't quite the same thing). Literally every asset on that list fits this definition, eg: 'Hope for a greater fool'. The thing is, in all asset classes, it tends to be the way that early investors reap massive gains. Housing. Stocks. Cryptocurrency. The great thing for you is it is still very early days for Cryptocurrency. It was only invented in 2009! What should be concerning is the sustainability of a 'scheme'. When unlimited USD can be printed at the desires of the administration, how can a fixed emission asset NOT outperform something inflationary?

kamaal 6y ago
>>From 3rd Jan 2009 until today, "Many often lose everything" is not true. All holdings are in the money. This is correct if you bought on 3rd Jan 2009. It depends on when you bought it. Whenever you bought it, you need some ready to buy it from you at a higher price. So as long that is true, you make profit. In fact that is profit and loss by definition. >>We don't know of the future. Exactly, ensure some one will buy from you at a higher price. So as long as you do this, you should be fine. >>The thing is, in all asset classes, it tends to be the way that early investors reap massive gains. Housing. Stocks. Cryptocurrency. Not true. Take housing for example, Housing tracks people ready to stay at a place for employment and other opportunities. Its value is tied to the businesses around. Stocks themselves are tied to how the company does well. What does Bitcoin track? Electricity spent to mine it? Speculative people hoping the next idiot comes along to bail them out? Well electricity isn't exactly scarce. Supply of electricity is unlimited for all practical purposes. >>The great thing for you is it is still very early days for Cryptocurrency. It was only invented in 2009! We don't know. Only the next people ready to invest $60K for a coin can decide that. And then the ones ready to put in $70K. Eventually some body needs to be present who can put in something like a $500K or a million. >>What should be concerning is the sustainability of a 'scheme'. Indeed. >>When unlimited USD can be printed at the desires of the administration, how can a fixed emission asset NOT outperform something inflationary? Because unlike USD backed by US government and its military. Bitcoin owners are in no position to invade some country like Iraq to liquidate themselves.
- rfd4sgmk8u 6y ago
  The most beautiful thing about bitcoin is it needs no government or military, it just is. Math > Militaries. Value of money is tied to its supply. What happened in 2020? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2
  - kamaal 6y ago
    No the most beautiful thing about Bitcoin so far is having people who are ready to buy it at $XK/coin helping those who bought it at $X-1K/coin. The ugly thing about Bitcoin will be when coin holders realise there are no people ready to put in $X+1K/coin, so people who bought at $XK will be ready to sell at $X-1K, and those who bought at $X-1K will eventually sell at $X-2K.. then $X-3K, then $X-4k... It's ok for people who bought at less than what is selling now. Not that much for those bought above it. In all this those who bought at $XK, will be happy to minimise their losses at $Xk - $1K and so on...
    - rfd4sgmk8u 6y ago
      I'm sorry dude, you really don't understand how this works. It isn't about finding a greater fool willing to pay $1k more than you did. The reality is there are plenty of people that will keep buying. There is no 'run out of buyers'. Years ago we spoke of 'buyers of last resort'. This used to be suckers like me. Its now large institutions playing games with each other. This world is far larger than you are imagining. I will buy BTC as long as I am able, with fiat currency, regularly. I do this as a hedge against inflating fiat currencies, and as you can buy a part of a coin, the actual price per unit doesn't matter as much. What matters is the store of value over longer times, in an deflating asset class. Can I recommend you watch some of Andreas videos at https://aantonop.com/videos/ https://aantonop.com/videos/ to inform yourself?
      - ThankYouBernard 6y ago
        > you really don't understand lol all you crypto fanatics think that the only possible reason anyone is skeptical is because they don't understand.
pushrax 6y ago
Long term investors in stocks hope those companies generate value for others, producing profit, and that fundamental reasoning is why the stock should either go up or dividends be paid. Proxy capitalism. Money goes from everyone to the owners (wealth gap rises). That's not to say stocks aren't also priced by market dynamics of speculation and meme spread. However, very long term trends in stocks should beat inflation in the currency those stocks are most exposed to. Stocks are a liquid representation of the most productive asset you can own (the work of other people and technology), so a good deal of the money created ends up in the stock market. Plus, companies own various tangible assets. That reasoning creates a strong price dependence on money supply. Bitcoin's relatively fixed monetary base makes it theoretically stable under fluctuations in fiat monetary base. However, at the moment, partially due to low relative market cap of crypto compared to the entire stock market, meme spread and sketchy actors create huge amounts of price movement, leading to distrust. Long term that could definitely change but it also might not. Currencies have a network effect. Until critical mass is reached (historically by government sponsorship), the value of a floating currency will be unstable. Also, you mention Bitcoin is fixed-emission. This is true and worth noting - around 18.6M out of 21M coins are minted. Right now inflation is ~2.2%. Relative to fiat this is pretty low, and there's only ~13% inflation left. https://charts.bitcoin.com/btc/chart/inflation https://charts.bitcoin.com/btc/chart/inflation
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> BTC is currently the 6th most valuable asset class by market cap TIL commodities, real estate, intellectual property, factories, bonds and private equity aren’t asset classes.

kamaal 6y ago

>>From 3rd Jan 2009 until today, "Many often lose everything" is not true. All holdings are in the money. This is correct if you bought on 3rd Jan 2009. It depends on when you bought it. Whenever you bought it, you need some ready to buy it from you at a higher price. So as long that is true, you make profit. In fact that is profit and loss by definition. >>We don't know of the future. Exactly, ensure some one will buy from you at a higher price. So as long as you do this, you should be fine. >>The thing is, in all asset classes, it tends to be the way that early investors reap massive gains. Housing. Stocks. Cryptocurrency. Not true. Take housing for example, Housing tracks people ready to stay at a place for employment and other opportunities. Its value is tied to the businesses around. Stocks themselves are tied to how the company does well. What does Bitcoin track? Electricity spent to mine it? Speculative people hoping the next idiot comes along to bail them out? Well electricity isn't exactly scarce. Supply of electricity is unlimited for all practical purposes. >>The great thing for you is it is still very early days for Cryptocurrency. It was only invented in 2009! We don't know. Only the next people ready to invest $60K for a coin can decide that. And then the ones ready to put in $70K. Eventually some body needs to be present who can put in something like a $500K or a million. >>What should be concerning is the sustainability of a 'scheme'. Indeed. >>When unlimited USD can be printed at the desires of the administration, how can a fixed emission asset NOT outperform something inflationary? Because unlike USD backed by US government and its military. Bitcoin owners are in no position to invade some country like Iraq to liquidate themselves.

rfd4sgmk8u 6y ago
The most beautiful thing about bitcoin is it needs no government or military, it just is. Math > Militaries. Value of money is tied to its supply. What happened in 2020? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2
- kamaal 6y ago
  No the most beautiful thing about Bitcoin so far is having people who are ready to buy it at $XK/coin helping those who bought it at $X-1K/coin. The ugly thing about Bitcoin will be when coin holders realise there are no people ready to put in $X+1K/coin, so people who bought at $XK will be ready to sell at $X-1K, and those who bought at $X-1K will eventually sell at $X-2K.. then $X-3K, then $X-4k... It's ok for people who bought at less than what is selling now. Not that much for those bought above it. In all this those who bought at $XK, will be happy to minimise their losses at $Xk - $1K and so on...
  - rfd4sgmk8u 6y ago
    I'm sorry dude, you really don't understand how this works. It isn't about finding a greater fool willing to pay $1k more than you did. The reality is there are plenty of people that will keep buying. There is no 'run out of buyers'. Years ago we spoke of 'buyers of last resort'. This used to be suckers like me. Its now large institutions playing games with each other. This world is far larger than you are imagining. I will buy BTC as long as I am able, with fiat currency, regularly. I do this as a hedge against inflating fiat currencies, and as you can buy a part of a coin, the actual price per unit doesn't matter as much. What matters is the store of value over longer times, in an deflating asset class. Can I recommend you watch some of Andreas videos at https://aantonop.com/videos/ https://aantonop.com/videos/ to inform yourself?
    - ThankYouBernard 6y ago
      > you really don't understand lol all you crypto fanatics think that the only possible reason anyone is skeptical is because they don't understand.

pushrax 6y ago

Long term investors in stocks hope those companies generate value for others, producing profit, and that fundamental reasoning is why the stock should either go up or dividends be paid. Proxy capitalism. Money goes from everyone to the owners (wealth gap rises). That's not to say stocks aren't also priced by market dynamics of speculation and meme spread. However, very long term trends in stocks should beat inflation in the currency those stocks are most exposed to. Stocks are a liquid representation of the most productive asset you can own (the work of other people and technology), so a good deal of the money created ends up in the stock market. Plus, companies own various tangible assets. That reasoning creates a strong price dependence on money supply. Bitcoin's relatively fixed monetary base makes it theoretically stable under fluctuations in fiat monetary base. However, at the moment, partially due to low relative market cap of crypto compared to the entire stock market, meme spread and sketchy actors create huge amounts of price movement, leading to distrust. Long term that could definitely change but it also might not. Currencies have a network effect. Until critical mass is reached (historically by government sponsorship), the value of a floating currency will be unstable. Also, you mention Bitcoin is fixed-emission. This is true and worth noting - around 18.6M out of 21M coins are minted. Right now inflation is ~2.2%. Relative to fiat this is pretty low, and there's only ~13% inflation left. https://charts.bitcoin.com/btc/chart/inflation https://charts.bitcoin.com/btc/chart/inflation

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> BTC is currently the 6th most valuable asset class by market cap TIL commodities, real estate, intellectual property, factories, bonds and private equity aren’t asset classes.