4 ms·

This is why I don't understand the massive cultural obsession over KPOP. It's one of the grossest abusive industries, and anyone who wants to know is able to d

by diob 6y ago

This is why I don't understand the massive cultural obsession over KPOP. It's one of the grossest abusive industries, and anyone who wants to know is able to do a simple google to find out. Those fans? They could use their collective economic impact to help those folks they "love". Instead they just let them get used and abused for their fantasy.

ratww 6y ago
I don't see that changing. I see K-pop fans worshipping the companies as much as they worship the artists themselves. It's a bit dystopic. As much as the old music industry sucks, at least established artists had power.
- celticninja 6y ago
  Idoru by William Gibson
  - ratww 6y ago
    Nice reference!
- farfacy 6y ago
  What Kpop fans are these? None of the Big 3 Kpop companies are worshiped and the men who founded them are hated. Smaller Kpop companies are not worshiped either. There's some BTS fans who like Big Hit but that's about it. Example of an established artist with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSo9NTb1llI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSo9NTb1llI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGW99ilZ7oQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGW99ilZ7oQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFELwBpskpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFELwBpskpU
- PeterisP 6y ago
  "at least established artists had power." Really? Prince's right to his own (stage) name? Taylor Swift and the rights to her early albums? And even if we're just talking about royalties, it looks like half of established artists have had lawsuits about labels defrauding them in some way, and the other half seem to have similar issues settled out of court.
  - ratww 6y ago
    You seem to be reading too much into my comment. "Having power" doesn't mean that everything is perfect and abuses won't happen.
simlevesque 6y ago
Same with video games.
farfacy 6y ago
The first problem here is using Google to find information about Kpop rather than Naver. Many of the abusive practices in Kpop also happen in the western music industry. It doesn't make it right, but Americans and American media have a massive blind-spot when looking at foreign cultures. These videos explain a few of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0gmu_m-os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0gmu_m-os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxj9rogBPi0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxj9rogBPi0 Kpop has become popular because it fills a niche that the western music industry doesn't cater to anymore. Some of it is actually better than the American pop scene. Right now there's no male western pop act with this Kpop idol's level of skill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEKVyfsYnuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEKVyfsYnuM Comparing similar acts shows why Kpop is becoming popular. Kpop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwYeEMpTIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwYeEMpTIM western pop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe6D899cz3c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe6D899cz3c Every fan of a Kpop artist has a long list of how they have been mistreated and mismanaged, and sometimes these aren't even justified, the fans are being oversensitive. The fans pay for protest trucks to park outside the music company buildings with screens displaying their demands for better treatment.
- abandonliberty 6y ago
  Isn't the problem here that the talent is fungible? The rewards are so high that there's no shortage of sufficient talent to make another Bieber or Taemin. People personally connect with the performer, but the performer's popularity is dependent on the whims of the industry and their managers. It would be naïve to expect a different outcome when the underlying drivers are the same. Both Japan and Korea are notable for their talent development pipeline. Did the West fall behind somehow, or is the market for these types of performances simply not as lucrative in the West? Or maybe it's simply easier/more predictable to manage solo acts? [1] Places k-pop behind pop, rock, oldies, hip-hop/rap, dance/electronic and indie/alternative. [1] https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/k-town/8531464/k-pop-most-popular-genres-world-ifpi-music-listening-report https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/k-town/8531464/k-...
jariel 6y ago
I don't think KPop artists are sex slaves, though? Rather, it's a really rough, possibly exploitative gig. They are just like models, but they also sing and dance. The Music Industry and Hollywood though, they will protect themselves. We hear more about someone being cancelled for the slightest Tweet than for example Bryan Singer's decades long rapey escapades. Corey Feldman was literally mocked in public for suggesting that he was abused. By none other than Barbara Walters.
- krageon 6y ago
  > They are just like models It is a little ironic that you say they're not required to give sexual favours and say right after that they're just like models, another industry where that is very very common.
  - jariel 6y ago
    But KPop is Korean and corporatised. It's not like 'modelling' or 'acting'. The bands are run by organized machines. Hollywood/Music/Modelling are industries of individuals, sometimes coming together for productions, entire segments of the industry never work in classically professional environments.
    - krageon 6y ago
      Given how fundamentally exploitative the KPop industry is, whether or not the exploitation is also sexual is not particularly important to me personally. The industry is unhealthy for the people that participate in it and it should not exist in it's current form.

by diob 6y ago

ratww 6y ago

I don't see that changing. I see K-pop fans worshipping the companies as much as they worship the artists themselves. It's a bit dystopic. As much as the old music industry sucks, at least established artists had power.

celticninja 6y ago
Idoru by William Gibson
- ratww 6y ago
  Nice reference!
farfacy 6y ago
What Kpop fans are these? None of the Big 3 Kpop companies are worshiped and the men who founded them are hated. Smaller Kpop companies are not worshiped either. There's some BTS fans who like Big Hit but that's about it. Example of an established artist with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSo9NTb1llI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSo9NTb1llI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGW99ilZ7oQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGW99ilZ7oQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFELwBpskpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFELwBpskpU
PeterisP 6y ago
"at least established artists had power." Really? Prince's right to his own (stage) name? Taylor Swift and the rights to her early albums? And even if we're just talking about royalties, it looks like half of established artists have had lawsuits about labels defrauding them in some way, and the other half seem to have similar issues settled out of court.
- ratww 6y ago
  You seem to be reading too much into my comment. "Having power" doesn't mean that everything is perfect and abuses won't happen.

simlevesque 6y ago

Same with video games.

farfacy 6y ago

The first problem here is using Google to find information about Kpop rather than Naver. Many of the abusive practices in Kpop also happen in the western music industry. It doesn't make it right, but Americans and American media have a massive blind-spot when looking at foreign cultures. These videos explain a few of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0gmu_m-os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0gmu_m-os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxj9rogBPi0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxj9rogBPi0 Kpop has become popular because it fills a niche that the western music industry doesn't cater to anymore. Some of it is actually better than the American pop scene. Right now there's no male western pop act with this Kpop idol's level of skill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEKVyfsYnuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEKVyfsYnuM Comparing similar acts shows why Kpop is becoming popular. Kpop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwYeEMpTIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwYeEMpTIM western pop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe6D899cz3c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe6D899cz3c Every fan of a Kpop artist has a long list of how they have been mistreated and mismanaged, and sometimes these aren't even justified, the fans are being oversensitive. The fans pay for protest trucks to park outside the music company buildings with screens displaying their demands for better treatment.

abandonliberty 6y ago
Isn't the problem here that the talent is fungible? The rewards are so high that there's no shortage of sufficient talent to make another Bieber or Taemin. People personally connect with the performer, but the performer's popularity is dependent on the whims of the industry and their managers. It would be naïve to expect a different outcome when the underlying drivers are the same. Both Japan and Korea are notable for their talent development pipeline. Did the West fall behind somehow, or is the market for these types of performances simply not as lucrative in the West? Or maybe it's simply easier/more predictable to manage solo acts? [1] Places k-pop behind pop, rock, oldies, hip-hop/rap, dance/electronic and indie/alternative. [1] https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/k-town/8531464/k-pop-most-popular-genres-world-ifpi-music-listening-report https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/k-town/8531464/k-...

jariel 6y ago

I don't think KPop artists are sex slaves, though? Rather, it's a really rough, possibly exploitative gig. They are just like models, but they also sing and dance. The Music Industry and Hollywood though, they will protect themselves. We hear more about someone being cancelled for the slightest Tweet than for example Bryan Singer's decades long rapey escapades. Corey Feldman was literally mocked in public for suggesting that he was abused. By none other than Barbara Walters.

krageon 6y ago
> They are just like models It is a little ironic that you say they're not required to give sexual favours and say right after that they're just like models, another industry where that is very very common.
- jariel 6y ago
  But KPop is Korean and corporatised. It's not like 'modelling' or 'acting'. The bands are run by organized machines. Hollywood/Music/Modelling are industries of individuals, sometimes coming together for productions, entire segments of the industry never work in classically professional environments.
  - krageon 6y ago
    Given how fundamentally exploitative the KPop industry is, whether or not the exploitation is also sexual is not particularly important to me personally. The industry is unhealthy for the people that participate in it and it should not exist in it's current form.