6 ms·

> the Mafia is very much a part of the music industry, I'm not too familiar with the pop side of the music industry. I dipped my toe into the Rap/R&B side of t

by yardie 6y ago

> the Mafia is very much a part of the music industry, I'm not too familiar with the pop side of the music industry. I dipped my toe into the Rap/R&B side of the business building websites for new artists. There were literal gangsters in the recording studios sitting across from me drinking and smoking and they made plans for every aspect of these young girls lives: what and when they could eat, who they could see, where they could travel. They were given an allowance. Sexual favours weren't requested or performed in front of me but it was clear these girls were under control. And by girls I mean 15,16,17.

selimthegrim 6y ago
So R Kelly just erred by degree?
diob 6y ago
This is why I don't understand the massive cultural obsession over KPOP. It's one of the grossest abusive industries, and anyone who wants to know is able to do a simple google to find out. Those fans? They could use their collective economic impact to help those folks they "love". Instead they just let them get used and abused for their fantasy.
- ratww 6y ago
  I don't see that changing. I see K-pop fans worshipping the companies as much as they worship the artists themselves. It's a bit dystopic. As much as the old music industry sucks, at least established artists had power.
  - celticninja 6y ago
    Idoru by William Gibson
    - ratww 6y ago
      Nice reference!
  - farfacy 6y ago
    What Kpop fans are these? None of the Big 3 Kpop companies are worshiped and the men who founded them are hated. Smaller Kpop companies are not worshiped either. There's some BTS fans who like Big Hit but that's about it. Example of an established artist with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSo9NTb1llI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSo9NTb1llI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGW99ilZ7oQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGW99ilZ7oQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFELwBpskpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFELwBpskpU
  - PeterisP 6y ago
    "at least established artists had power." Really? Prince's right to his own (stage) name? Taylor Swift and the rights to her early albums? And even if we're just talking about royalties, it looks like half of established artists have had lawsuits about labels defrauding them in some way, and the other half seem to have similar issues settled out of court.
    - ratww 6y ago
      You seem to be reading too much into my comment. "Having power" doesn't mean that everything is perfect and abuses won't happen.
- simlevesque 6y ago
  Same with video games.
- farfacy 6y ago
  The first problem here is using Google to find information about Kpop rather than Naver. Many of the abusive practices in Kpop also happen in the western music industry. It doesn't make it right, but Americans and American media have a massive blind-spot when looking at foreign cultures. These videos explain a few of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0gmu_m-os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0gmu_m-os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxj9rogBPi0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxj9rogBPi0 Kpop has become popular because it fills a niche that the western music industry doesn't cater to anymore. Some of it is actually better than the American pop scene. Right now there's no male western pop act with this Kpop idol's level of skill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEKVyfsYnuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEKVyfsYnuM Comparing similar acts shows why Kpop is becoming popular. Kpop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwYeEMpTIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwYeEMpTIM western pop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe6D899cz3c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe6D899cz3c Every fan of a Kpop artist has a long list of how they have been mistreated and mismanaged, and sometimes these aren't even justified, the fans are being oversensitive. The fans pay for protest trucks to park outside the music company buildings with screens displaying their demands for better treatment.
  - abandonliberty 6y ago
    Isn't the problem here that the talent is fungible? The rewards are so high that there's no shortage of sufficient talent to make another Bieber or Taemin. People personally connect with the performer, but the performer's popularity is dependent on the whims of the industry and their managers. It would be naïve to expect a different outcome when the underlying drivers are the same. Both Japan and Korea are notable for their talent development pipeline. Did the West fall behind somehow, or is the market for these types of performances simply not as lucrative in the West? Or maybe it's simply easier/more predictable to manage solo acts? [1] Places k-pop behind pop, rock, oldies, hip-hop/rap, dance/electronic and indie/alternative. [1] https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/k-town/8531464/k-pop-most-popular-genres-world-ifpi-music-listening-report https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/k-town/8531464/k-...
- jariel 6y ago
  I don't think KPop artists are sex slaves, though? Rather, it's a really rough, possibly exploitative gig. They are just like models, but they also sing and dance. The Music Industry and Hollywood though, they will protect themselves. We hear more about someone being cancelled for the slightest Tweet than for example Bryan Singer's decades long rapey escapades. Corey Feldman was literally mocked in public for suggesting that he was abused. By none other than Barbara Walters.
  - krageon 6y ago
    > They are just like models It is a little ironic that you say they're not required to give sexual favours and say right after that they're just like models, another industry where that is very very common.
    - jariel 6y ago
      But KPop is Korean and corporatised. It's not like 'modelling' or 'acting'. The bands are run by organized machines. Hollywood/Music/Modelling are industries of individuals, sometimes coming together for productions, entire segments of the industry never work in classically professional environments.
      - krageon 6y ago
        Given how fundamentally exploitative the KPop industry is, whether or not the exploitation is also sexual is not particularly important to me personally. The industry is unhealthy for the people that participate in it and it should not exist in it's current form.
snarfy 6y ago
I worked for a startup that contracted with the major record labels at the time, with a lot of the funding coming from the record labels. One day a group of four men arrived at the office. They were investors and not too happy with how the stock had been performing. This was a time before naked shorting was illegal. They all wore suits and one of the men carried a baseball bat into the office. They all had stereotypical gangster accents. They had a closed door meeting with the CEO that day, baseball bat and all, and I'm pretty sure they got paid that day. It was one of the most bizarre work experiences in my life. Mafia in the music industry? Yes, yes it is.
- beambot 6y ago
  > before naked shorting was illegal It might be illegal now, but certainly not enforced!
  - freddie_mercury 6y ago
    Yes it is. It took me less than 5 seconds to Google and find cases of it being enforced: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2014-20 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2014-20 The attitude of "they don't catch every criminal, therefore it isn't being enforced" that people take towards financial crimes is silly. 40% of murderers get away with it but no one goes around trying to claim that "murder but by illegal but it certainly isn't enforced". Over 60% of rapists get away with it. 70% of robbery. 80% of theft. 87% of burglary. Just because financial crimes (maybe) have a slightly higher rate of "getting away with it" is no reason to make the disingenuous claim that it isn't enforced.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > 40% of murderers get away with it but no one goes around trying to claim that "murder but by illegal but it certainly isn't enforced". Well, maybe not murder in general, but there is certainly a point where the prohibition is seen as theoretical. Consider BLM.
    - beambot 6y ago
technick 6y ago
I used to cover (photography) the BET music awards for a newspaper between 2006-2009. I saw the same things, in dressing rooms, green rooms and after parties. Someone controlled the female artists, who they can talk with, who could take pictures of them, etc. It made my job hard and sometimes impossible.
- hammock 6y ago
  Why is it different for female artists than male artists? Could it also have some protective aspect?
  - watwut 6y ago
    > Could it also have some protective aspect? No, if you are trying to actually protecting someone, you don't end up isolating them nor controlling who they can talk to. Protection would be that the artist decides who she/he talks to and you enforce that. If you make those decisions and expect artist to comply, it is not protection anymore.

by yardie 6y ago

selimthegrim 6y ago

So R Kelly just erred by degree?

diob 6y ago

This is why I don't understand the massive cultural obsession over KPOP. It's one of the grossest abusive industries, and anyone who wants to know is able to do a simple google to find out. Those fans? They could use their collective economic impact to help those folks they "love". Instead they just let them get used and abused for their fantasy.

ratww 6y ago
I don't see that changing. I see K-pop fans worshipping the companies as much as they worship the artists themselves. It's a bit dystopic. As much as the old music industry sucks, at least established artists had power.
- celticninja 6y ago
  Idoru by William Gibson
  - ratww 6y ago
    Nice reference!
- farfacy 6y ago
  What Kpop fans are these? None of the Big 3 Kpop companies are worshiped and the men who founded them are hated. Smaller Kpop companies are not worshiped either. There's some BTS fans who like Big Hit but that's about it. Example of an established artist with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSo9NTb1llI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSo9NTb1llI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGW99ilZ7oQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGW99ilZ7oQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFELwBpskpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFELwBpskpU
- PeterisP 6y ago
  "at least established artists had power." Really? Prince's right to his own (stage) name? Taylor Swift and the rights to her early albums? And even if we're just talking about royalties, it looks like half of established artists have had lawsuits about labels defrauding them in some way, and the other half seem to have similar issues settled out of court.
  - ratww 6y ago
    You seem to be reading too much into my comment. "Having power" doesn't mean that everything is perfect and abuses won't happen.
simlevesque 6y ago
Same with video games.
farfacy 6y ago
The first problem here is using Google to find information about Kpop rather than Naver. Many of the abusive practices in Kpop also happen in the western music industry. It doesn't make it right, but Americans and American media have a massive blind-spot when looking at foreign cultures. These videos explain a few of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0gmu_m-os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0gmu_m-os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxj9rogBPi0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxj9rogBPi0 Kpop has become popular because it fills a niche that the western music industry doesn't cater to anymore. Some of it is actually better than the American pop scene. Right now there's no male western pop act with this Kpop idol's level of skill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEKVyfsYnuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEKVyfsYnuM Comparing similar acts shows why Kpop is becoming popular. Kpop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwYeEMpTIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwYeEMpTIM western pop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe6D899cz3c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe6D899cz3c Every fan of a Kpop artist has a long list of how they have been mistreated and mismanaged, and sometimes these aren't even justified, the fans are being oversensitive. The fans pay for protest trucks to park outside the music company buildings with screens displaying their demands for better treatment.
- abandonliberty 6y ago
  Isn't the problem here that the talent is fungible? The rewards are so high that there's no shortage of sufficient talent to make another Bieber or Taemin. People personally connect with the performer, but the performer's popularity is dependent on the whims of the industry and their managers. It would be naïve to expect a different outcome when the underlying drivers are the same. Both Japan and Korea are notable for their talent development pipeline. Did the West fall behind somehow, or is the market for these types of performances simply not as lucrative in the West? Or maybe it's simply easier/more predictable to manage solo acts? [1] Places k-pop behind pop, rock, oldies, hip-hop/rap, dance/electronic and indie/alternative. [1] https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/k-town/8531464/k-pop-most-popular-genres-world-ifpi-music-listening-report https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/k-town/8531464/k-...
jariel 6y ago
I don't think KPop artists are sex slaves, though? Rather, it's a really rough, possibly exploitative gig. They are just like models, but they also sing and dance. The Music Industry and Hollywood though, they will protect themselves. We hear more about someone being cancelled for the slightest Tweet than for example Bryan Singer's decades long rapey escapades. Corey Feldman was literally mocked in public for suggesting that he was abused. By none other than Barbara Walters.
- krageon 6y ago
  > They are just like models It is a little ironic that you say they're not required to give sexual favours and say right after that they're just like models, another industry where that is very very common.
  - jariel 6y ago
    But KPop is Korean and corporatised. It's not like 'modelling' or 'acting'. The bands are run by organized machines. Hollywood/Music/Modelling are industries of individuals, sometimes coming together for productions, entire segments of the industry never work in classically professional environments.
    - krageon 6y ago
      Given how fundamentally exploitative the KPop industry is, whether or not the exploitation is also sexual is not particularly important to me personally. The industry is unhealthy for the people that participate in it and it should not exist in it's current form.

snarfy 6y ago

I worked for a startup that contracted with the major record labels at the time, with a lot of the funding coming from the record labels. One day a group of four men arrived at the office. They were investors and not too happy with how the stock had been performing. This was a time before naked shorting was illegal. They all wore suits and one of the men carried a baseball bat into the office. They all had stereotypical gangster accents. They had a closed door meeting with the CEO that day, baseball bat and all, and I'm pretty sure they got paid that day. It was one of the most bizarre work experiences in my life. Mafia in the music industry? Yes, yes it is.

beambot 6y ago
> before naked shorting was illegal It might be illegal now, but certainly not enforced!
- freddie_mercury 6y ago
  Yes it is. It took me less than 5 seconds to Google and find cases of it being enforced: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2014-20 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2014-20 The attitude of "they don't catch every criminal, therefore it isn't being enforced" that people take towards financial crimes is silly. 40% of murderers get away with it but no one goes around trying to claim that "murder but by illegal but it certainly isn't enforced". Over 60% of rapists get away with it. 70% of robbery. 80% of theft. 87% of burglary. Just because financial crimes (maybe) have a slightly higher rate of "getting away with it" is no reason to make the disingenuous claim that it isn't enforced.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > 40% of murderers get away with it but no one goes around trying to claim that "murder but by illegal but it certainly isn't enforced". Well, maybe not murder in general, but there is certainly a point where the prohibition is seen as theoretical. Consider BLM.
  - beambot 6y ago

technick 6y ago

I used to cover (photography) the BET music awards for a newspaper between 2006-2009. I saw the same things, in dressing rooms, green rooms and after parties. Someone controlled the female artists, who they can talk with, who could take pictures of them, etc. It made my job hard and sometimes impossible.

hammock 6y ago
Why is it different for female artists than male artists? Could it also have some protective aspect?
- watwut 6y ago
  > Could it also have some protective aspect? No, if you are trying to actually protecting someone, you don't end up isolating them nor controlling who they can talk to. Protection would be that the artist decides who she/he talks to and you enforce that. If you make those decisions and expect artist to comply, it is not protection anymore.