5 ms·

Any time you have an industry where the number of people who want to do the work vastly outstrips demand and where there are gatekeepers, you are going to get a

• moduspol 6y ago
  It also helps a lot when the quality of the work performed by the person is subjective and overall success is largely dependent on the work of others (writers, musicians, tour directors, sound editors, etc.). It'd be a lot tougher to be successful as an electrician or commercial airline pilot if you got there from sexual favors for your boss.
  • bluGill 6y ago
    > It'd be a lot tougher to be successful as an electrician or commercial airline pilot if you got there from sexual favors for your boss. That isn't true, but the reasons are different for each. For electrician getting your foot in the door is the hard part, from there on it is about on the job training. Getting the first apprentice position is one of the harder steps to success, and sexual favors can work here. Though I doubt this happens much in practice - the field isn't one that people are so excited to get into that they will drop their morals to do so. For airline pilot, demand comes and goes. You have to get a license first (though you can probably pay your instructor in bed, that just gets training I doubt any instructor/examiner will let you buy the license before you are qualified - if anything they will be tougher one you so you have to "buy" another lesson). Once you are qualified, you can use favors to get a job when jobs are scare and this will put you ahead in seniority later when the others finally get a job; or you can use favor to keep a job - but again: seniority means they may not even have an option to keep you. Note that the above is or - because of constant management change odds are against your ability to use this more than once at a real airline without getting caught and then their HR will ensure you are out.
    • WindyLakeReturn 6y ago
      To clarify, are you disagreeing with their point, or just the examples they used? I'm able to read your comment either way, so I'm not sure.
      • bluGill 6y ago
        The examples. Though I think I could find pedantic fault with any example while still agreeing with the point.
    • redis_mlc 6y ago
      It's common for instructors and student pilots to date, but the scenario you described would be very rare in the US because nearly always flight school administration handles billing, and ratings are from the FAA, DPE's or Part 141 flight school examiners, who usually don't do individual instruction for initial ratings. So the instructor would have to be an owner/instructor/examiner, which is rare. Same with getting a pilot job more or less. Hollywood is really in a different category.
• fulafel 6y ago
  I wonder about game development, it shares a lot of the traits.
  • api 6y ago
    Game development is known for being a death march burnout culture.
  • tabtab 6y ago
    My body doesn't qualify me for access to "alternative routes" to success. I can see many game devs are in the same boat.
  • jandrese 6y ago
    Game development is probably saved because most studios had (have?) really serious gender imbalances. I wouldn't be surprised of reports of harassment by the female devs, but they make up such a small percentage of the population that it doesn't change the entire hiring dynamic like it does in the music industry.
    • fulafel 6y ago
      The cases in the BBC story we're commenting on were same-sex.
  • megameter 6y ago
    There are definitely stories to tell. https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/11/rumour_leading_japanese_game_company_kidnapped_devs_sister_to_stop_them_from_working_with_nintendo https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/11/rumour_leading_jap... https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/tech/gaming-metoo-twitch/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/tech/gaming-metoo-twitch/inde... A good rule of thumb is to look for visible gatekeepers. Where they go the abuses follow, and if caught they only need to burnish their image enough to get their pals to rehire them.
  • jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
    Historically game dev has definitely had a big boys club problem. It's better post gamergate, and the trend is heading the right way, but still, it's a bad problem. What I saw personally, working on an ill fated unreal licensed property around 1999, wasn't sexual extortion. But it was a boys club that loved trading porn in the official irc channels for unreal engine support. CliffyB was particularly fond of posting pictures of his then girlfriend, as well as essentially rick rolling people with this picture involving a cactus and what appears to be a very uncomfortable sexual act. It may not have been straight up extortion of sexual interactions, but I am sure that if you pushed back on that, you'd have found yourself fenced out of the very small community of people who have huge influence over whether your game ships. It certainly was not a welcoming environment to anyone other than immature young men, which is a label I'd apply to myself at that time for sure. Again though, I want to emphasize I also see a positive trend in gaming in general. There's a long walk ahead, but the industry is actually walking the right direction, just slowly.
• alexashka 6y ago
  > Any time you have an industry where the number of people who want to do the work vastly outstrips demand and where there are gatekeepers, you are going to get a culture of abuse. You've perfectly described capitalism where every capitalist state consciously constrains the number of available jobs, maintaining a stable unemployment % among the populace. Once they've done that, people are always fighting each other and compromising their dignity and morals - some to get ahead, some to simply stay afloat and have a family.
  • tabtab 6y ago
    I would qualify this by saying many want to be in specific entertainment industries for the (potential) glamor and fame, and will sacrifice a lot to reach that goal. Many may have more practical alternatives, but are driven by a goal. This is the land of opportunity, and many dream of taking a shot at the big-time while still young and attractive. That window of time closes fast. The idea of possibly being the next Elvis or Madonna if you accept being boinked by a pig with money is hard to turn down for many. One of the reasons the game dev industry has more abuse (mostly non-sexual) than other software endeavors is because games are seen as more fun or cool to work on, rather than say a sales proposal tracking CRUD system. (I'm happy making sales proposal tracking systems myself, although I admit I have dabbled in the pop music writing industry, and still dabble in neo-renascence tunes.) My daughter found the clothing fashion industry is similar: high pressure because many want the job of designer and scrape and claw to get it. She changed careers after some nasty office skirmishes among competitors.
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  • jmoss20 6y ago
    As far as I understand, the first claim: > [capitalist states] consciously constrains the number of available jobs, maintaining a stable unemployment % among the populace. is true, and not particularly controversial. Too little unemployment is assumed (true or not) to lead to inflation and inefficiency. (Although, I'm not sure the second claim follows. If unemployment is reduced by, say, drastically lowering the minimum wage, I don't see why things would look any different. Unemployment isn't the problem, here anyway.)
• BurningFrog 6y ago
  To be a little more precise, I think the conditions are 1. The job is incredibly rewarding, both in terms of money and fame. 2. There are thousands of pretty much equally qualified people for the job. Here the "hiring manager" clearly has enormous leverage.
• Gatsky 6y ago
  Yes. I have heard of sexual favours being provided by a trainee to get into a (highly sought after) Dermatology training program. Another way to put it is that anyone who can be exploited will be exploited. The differences are only in frequency and visiblity.