4 ms·

I don't think you have a picture of what a welfare state is. Sometimes it helps to take it to the extreme: You have millions of people sitting in their governm

by nvoid 6y ago

I don't think you have a picture of what a welfare state is. Sometimes it helps to take it to the extreme: You have millions of people sitting in their government provided housing, waiting for their government provided payouts, so they can avoid having to get out and work. This sound familiar yet? Then what you have to do, after production grounds to a halt, is to start to force people to work which is exactly how you get labor camps.

disgruntledphd2 6y ago
Ah yes, the well known labour camps of Scandinavia. I'm pretty sure you may be trolling but if you're not, reading up on the western european welfare states would probably be a good idea.
- nvoid 6y ago
  I was taking it to the extreme as I said above. Obviously it is possible to have a country that has welfare without labor camps. I was merely trying to point out that by having unemployment benefits, you actively discourage people to get jobs and essentially tax payers pay for people to not work. At least in the UK, we have an inordinate amount of benefits cheats that live off other people's money. If you only extend benefits to people who physically cannot work -i.e. disability benefits, then you stop this happening.
  - peteretep 6y ago
    > At least in the UK, we have an inordinate amount of benefits cheats that live off other people's money ... > perceptions among the British public were that benefit fraud was high – on average people thought that 27% of the British welfare budget is claimed fraudulently; however, official UK Government figures have stated that the proportion of fraud stands at 0.7% of the total welfare budget in 2011/12 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_fraud_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_fraud_in_the_United_...
    - nvoid 6y ago
      Sorry but my definition of a benefit cheat is much more liberal than the government's: > Fraud: Cases where all three of the following conditions apply: The conditions for receipt of benefit, or the rate of benefit in payment, are not being met The claimant can reasonably be expected to be aware of the effect on entitlement Benefit stops or reduces as a result of the review. [1] < Firstly, the data is only from those who got caught. I would say there is probably a lot more that haven't been. Also, you can claim benefits by going to the job centre every so often, but you don't need to actually get a job. Anecdotally, my mate's dad does this. He has been living off of benefits for 10+ years, even though he is more than able to work. If someone can get away with it for that long, how is the system not broken? [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2018-to-2019-estimates https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-...

by nvoid 6y ago

disgruntledphd2 6y ago

Ah yes, the well known labour camps of Scandinavia. I'm pretty sure you may be trolling but if you're not, reading up on the western european welfare states would probably be a good idea.

nvoid 6y ago
I was taking it to the extreme as I said above. Obviously it is possible to have a country that has welfare without labor camps. I was merely trying to point out that by having unemployment benefits, you actively discourage people to get jobs and essentially tax payers pay for people to not work. At least in the UK, we have an inordinate amount of benefits cheats that live off other people's money. If you only extend benefits to people who physically cannot work -i.e. disability benefits, then you stop this happening.
- peteretep 6y ago
  > At least in the UK, we have an inordinate amount of benefits cheats that live off other people's money ... > perceptions among the British public were that benefit fraud was high – on average people thought that 27% of the British welfare budget is claimed fraudulently; however, official UK Government figures have stated that the proportion of fraud stands at 0.7% of the total welfare budget in 2011/12 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_fraud_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_fraud_in_the_United_...
  - nvoid 6y ago
    Sorry but my definition of a benefit cheat is much more liberal than the government's: > Fraud: Cases where all three of the following conditions apply: The conditions for receipt of benefit, or the rate of benefit in payment, are not being met The claimant can reasonably be expected to be aware of the effect on entitlement Benefit stops or reduces as a result of the review. [1] < Firstly, the data is only from those who got caught. I would say there is probably a lot more that haven't been. Also, you can claim benefits by going to the job centre every so often, but you don't need to actually get a job. Anecdotally, my mate's dad does this. He has been living off of benefits for 10+ years, even though he is more than able to work. If someone can get away with it for that long, how is the system not broken? [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2018-to-2019-estimates https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-...