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It's not "the system" that is broken in that case, just your personal life. There is no system that provides for you, you have to do that yourself. Edit: I thi

It's not "the system" that is broken in that case, just your personal life. There is no system that provides for you, you have to do that yourself. Edit: I think "get a better job" is a better argument than "I am such a victim, there is nothing I can do, everybody else is at fault". What else than getting a better job can you do? Seriously? And you don't need better education or stuff like that. If you work three jobs, maybe you can replace them with a normal job in a factory line or whatever. Just because you don't immediately get bestowed with your ideal job, doesn't mean that everything is hopeless and society is exploiting you. Most people don't start out with their ideal job. Jobs don't fall from the sky. And nobody owes you a job. If there are no jobs in your area, you should move to someplace where there are jobs (maybe because a new Amazon warehouse opens or whatever). Yes, there can be circumstances where you can't move, like perhaps having to take care of sick relatives. But those are also temporary.

holstvoogd 6y ago
ah yes, the 'just get a better job' argument. smh.
- tremon 6y ago
  It's easier than the 'just get a better system' argument.
qmmmur 6y ago
You realise the alternative you offer is one of the jobs that won't sustain you on it's own? Let me guess, you personally have an okay job so the woes of anyone else must be self inflicted?
- judgemcjudgy 6y ago
  I said find a normal paying job. Why do you claim it won't sustain people on its own?
theshrike79 6y ago
A single full-time job should pay enough for a person to be able to have a place to live and sufficient food to provide a healthy amount calories for themselves and their dependants. If this it not possible, the system itself is broken, either rent/food is too expensive, wages are too low or both.
arez 6y ago
you seem to be very disconnected with people who have these problems. There are no jobs for some people, they can't move, can't work in certain jobs, have mental, physical problems etc. also no, society maybe doesn't owe you a job, but at least in europe there's this believe that we care for each other and you don't have to work 3 jobs, the government just pays such a high unemployment rate that companies won't create those jobs because it's better to be unemployed than to work for this little money.
noahtallen 6y ago
Your concept is predicated on the assumption that there is and always will be a supply of living-wage jobs provided by “the market” equal to the number of people alive. That’s probably a wrong assumption to make. And, what if everyone followed your advice to abandon low wage jobs and just get better ones? - People need a living wage to, well, live. - Therefore, all people should get better jobs so that they have living wages (instead of working 3 jobs or relying on welfare) - As a result, there are no workers for low wage jobs. - But everyone relies on these jobs constantly for the menial tasks we don’t like to do ourselves (like cooking or cleaning or farming or building things) - So we do in fact value these jobs enough for people to work them. Otherwise our lives would be less comfortable. As a result, we should actually be bringing the wages of these jobs up (to make them living-wage jobs) rather having everyone abandon these jobs for other high paying jobs which don’t actually exist. I want to (eventually) eat out at a restaurant, and there aren’t enough teenagers to be waiters everywhere. So do I just say to every waiter that they should “get a better job”, and eventually run out of waiters? Ridiculous. I propose that if someone cannot make a living off of the service they provide, then we should examine whether we would rather do it ourselves all the time. If we do think it’s a valuable service, I’d hope we’d be willing to compensate in a non-exploitative way.
the-smug-one 6y ago
>"I am such a victim, there is nothing I can do, everybody else is at fault" How about "We should organize ourselves to ensure that everyone's necessities are provided for through democratic processes"? There is no reason to accept this status quo. OK, your account was created 13 hours ago and you're already at -19.
- judgemcjudgy 6y ago
  Yeah because HN is full of raging socialists who can't accept dissenting opinions. Essentially, you are all demanding a basic income for everybody? Sure it is a nice thought. I am not against providing for everyone. It comes with several catches, though. At the very least, you then also have to discuss birth rates and immigration. Unfortunately YC makes it impossible for me to discuss this any further, they rate limit my comments.

holstvoogd 6y ago

ah yes, the 'just get a better job' argument. smh.

tremon 6y ago
It's easier than the 'just get a better system' argument.

qmmmur 6y ago

You realise the alternative you offer is one of the jobs that won't sustain you on it's own? Let me guess, you personally have an okay job so the woes of anyone else must be self inflicted?

judgemcjudgy 6y ago
I said find a normal paying job. Why do you claim it won't sustain people on its own?

theshrike79 6y ago

A single full-time job should pay enough for a person to be able to have a place to live and sufficient food to provide a healthy amount calories for themselves and their dependants. If this it not possible, the system itself is broken, either rent/food is too expensive, wages are too low or both.

arez 6y ago

you seem to be very disconnected with people who have these problems. There are no jobs for some people, they can't move, can't work in certain jobs, have mental, physical problems etc. also no, society maybe doesn't owe you a job, but at least in europe there's this believe that we care for each other and you don't have to work 3 jobs, the government just pays such a high unemployment rate that companies won't create those jobs because it's better to be unemployed than to work for this little money.

noahtallen 6y ago

Your concept is predicated on the assumption that there is and always will be a supply of living-wage jobs provided by “the market” equal to the number of people alive. That’s probably a wrong assumption to make. And, what if everyone followed your advice to abandon low wage jobs and just get better ones? - People need a living wage to, well, live. - Therefore, all people should get better jobs so that they have living wages (instead of working 3 jobs or relying on welfare) - As a result, there are no workers for low wage jobs. - But everyone relies on these jobs constantly for the menial tasks we don’t like to do ourselves (like cooking or cleaning or farming or building things) - So we do in fact value these jobs enough for people to work them. Otherwise our lives would be less comfortable. As a result, we should actually be bringing the wages of these jobs up (to make them living-wage jobs) rather having everyone abandon these jobs for other high paying jobs which don’t actually exist. I want to (eventually) eat out at a restaurant, and there aren’t enough teenagers to be waiters everywhere. So do I just say to every waiter that they should “get a better job”, and eventually run out of waiters? Ridiculous. I propose that if someone cannot make a living off of the service they provide, then we should examine whether we would rather do it ourselves all the time. If we do think it’s a valuable service, I’d hope we’d be willing to compensate in a non-exploitative way.

the-smug-one 6y ago

>"I am such a victim, there is nothing I can do, everybody else is at fault" How about "We should organize ourselves to ensure that everyone's necessities are provided for through democratic processes"? There is no reason to accept this status quo. OK, your account was created 13 hours ago and you're already at -19.

judgemcjudgy 6y ago
Yeah because HN is full of raging socialists who can't accept dissenting opinions. Essentially, you are all demanding a basic income for everybody? Sure it is a nice thought. I am not against providing for everyone. It comes with several catches, though. At the very least, you then also have to discuss birth rates and immigration. Unfortunately YC makes it impossible for me to discuss this any further, they rate limit my comments.