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The average transaction fee is a bit disingenuous. Many people are not even using segwit and thats on them. You can also use lightning at this point in time b

The average transaction fee is a bit disingenuous. Many people are not even using segwit and thats on them. You can also use lightning at this point in time but people dont know how to do it and wallets have not implemented yet. High fees usually prod people and services to adapt to the current tech to get costs down. I expect this to happen soon as high fees are somewhat recent. Also you can send a 50 cent tx fee and it will make it through but not be the fastest. One other thing - you cant even move BTC in or out of Robinhood. Robinhood for crypto is a complete scam right now.

SamPatt 6y ago
Transaction fees are high regardless of using Segwit or not and the Lightning Network is not widely adopted or user friendly at all.
- trident5000 6y ago
  This response is just insignificant and ignores everything I said. Segwit adoption is at 50% and again, as I said in my comment, Lightning will be further adopted over time for people who want lower fees. The options are here its up to people and services to use them. And they will as their customers get angry.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    It's been over 2 years since segwit was released. It turns out that people were right when they said that it would take a long while for it to be adopted.
    - trident5000 6y ago
      I use it and I pay lower fees. You pay the price you deserve.
      - ineedasername 6y ago
        I though you paid the price dictated by the market/bidding system... How does bitcoin figure out what is deserved?
        nfin 6y ago
        You (or your wallet, or both... depending of your wallet and your settings) choose the fees you like (the wallet could guesstimate based on the current congestion and your time preference). The miners then choose the transactions they want to include in a way, as to maximize their gains. As a block can only hold a certain amount of transactions and the limit being set by the weight-units [1], miners will want to prioritize the transactions that offer them bigger fees per weight unit, or usually expressed as sats/vbyte (satoshis per virtual bytes). So if you don't need a transaction to arrive in the next 1-2 hours, you can lower your fees, and the transaction might pass in the night (although BTC is international, congestion is less on US night time and especially week-ends) or if not, probably in the week-end. If it doesn't clear fast enough, or as fast as hoped, then RBF (replace-by-fee) or CPFP (child-pays-for-parent) might help (manually or an increase of the fee could be automated by the wallet every set amount of time). TL;DR: there is a free market for transactions, but the price is not dictated by the market (and there is no real bidding system), instead you suggest a fee, and see if any miner around the world wants to include it in a block (and you can adjust if the outcome isn't achieved, which has similar results to a bidding system... but is more like natural supply/demand mechanism, as miner do not guarantee to include a transaction). Helpful to see current unconfirmed transactions (and sats/vbyte): https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,30d https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,30d [info: the legend is clickable, and makes it easier to view how many higher paying transactions there are] [1]: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weight_units https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weight_units
      - imtringued 6y ago
        People with whole Bitcoin don't necessarily care about a $50 transaction fee. They still drive the transaction fees up by wasting space and thus cause people who decide to use segwit to pay more.
- kaetemi 6y ago
  At present time, $5 for a fast transaction with segwit.
incrudible 6y ago
> One other thing - you cant even move BTC in or out of Robinhood. Robinhood for crypto is a complete scam right now. If you buy an option for a barrel of oil, Robinhood doesn't even deliver it to you. Same for wheat and gold. What a scam! In all seriousness, if you want to speculate on the price of Bitcoin, Robinhood may be better than using some of these more sketchy exchanges that offer decent amounts of leverage. If you want to actually purchase Bitcoin, there's regulated exchanges where you can do so, though that'll probably land you on some FBI watch list.
- trident5000 6y ago
  "though that'll probably land you on some FBI watch list." I have no idea why you would think this.
  - Imnimo 6y ago
    In a way, putting your transactions on a public ledger is like voluntarily adding yourself to a watch list. The government (and everyone else) can then come and inspect your financial history at their leisure in the future.
    - trident5000 6y ago
      Its a settlement layer. Who cares. And you think they already cant access your transactions through the traditional system? Thats how they catch criminals every year.
      - Imnimo 6y ago
        Accessing transactions in the traditional system ostensibly requires a subpoena, and is limited by jurisdiction.
        trident5000 6y ago
        You would need the same to identify a fiat gateway with btc. You cant link a person to an account without that.
UncleMeat 6y ago
> You can also use lightning at this point in time It has a big warning saying to not use it with cash you aren't willing to lose.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Neither Visa nor MasterCard have ever told me something like that.
tuesdayrain 6y ago
>One other thing - you cant even move BTC in or out of Robinhood. Robinhood for crypto is a complete scam right now. I definitely would not call that a scam. I have no reason to move my BTC.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  "my"
- ineedasername 6y ago
  It's only a scam if you're trying to own actual bitcoin instead of simply using it as an investment vehicle. Besides, if you really want to own a given amount of bitcoins that you have in your robinhood account, you just liquidate your position in RH and use those funds to purchase bitcoins directly.
fomine3 6y ago
Why Lightning isn't adopted well? Is it unreliable or can be frauded due to it's not blockchain? What's the point to use non-blockchain tech?
- trident5000 6y ago
  Tech rollout takes time. Because paying for your coffee is insignificant and you dont need nuclear level security to protect it. But nevertheless it should be very secure.
chrismorgan 6y ago
> Also you can send a 50 cent tx fee and it will make it through but not be the fastest. This has tended to be true (that it’d go through within a few days), but right now it’s probably largely false. Assume a small 226 byte transaction (one input and two outputs); at $50,000 per bitcoin, 50¢ is 1000 satoshi, which is about 4.4 satoshi per byte. Per https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,30d https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,30d, transactions with fees under 5 satoshi per byte were last cleared on February 8 (~8 days ago), and before that last on January 28 (~11 days). (Before that, such transactions stalled for about 12 days in October/November; other than that, it looks like such transactions never stalled for even a week back to the January 2018 craze, to say nothing of 50¢ being more satoshi per byte back then anyway.) And if your transaction expires after a week——

SamPatt 6y ago

Transaction fees are high regardless of using Segwit or not and the Lightning Network is not widely adopted or user friendly at all.

trident5000 6y ago
This response is just insignificant and ignores everything I said. Segwit adoption is at 50% and again, as I said in my comment, Lightning will be further adopted over time for people who want lower fees. The options are here its up to people and services to use them. And they will as their customers get angry.
- stale2002 6y ago
  It's been over 2 years since segwit was released. It turns out that people were right when they said that it would take a long while for it to be adopted.
  - trident5000 6y ago
    I use it and I pay lower fees. You pay the price you deserve.
    - ineedasername 6y ago
      I though you paid the price dictated by the market/bidding system... How does bitcoin figure out what is deserved?
      - nfin 6y ago
        You (or your wallet, or both... depending of your wallet and your settings) choose the fees you like (the wallet could guesstimate based on the current congestion and your time preference). The miners then choose the transactions they want to include in a way, as to maximize their gains. As a block can only hold a certain amount of transactions and the limit being set by the weight-units [1], miners will want to prioritize the transactions that offer them bigger fees per weight unit, or usually expressed as sats/vbyte (satoshis per virtual bytes). So if you don't need a transaction to arrive in the next 1-2 hours, you can lower your fees, and the transaction might pass in the night (although BTC is international, congestion is less on US night time and especially week-ends) or if not, probably in the week-end. If it doesn't clear fast enough, or as fast as hoped, then RBF (replace-by-fee) or CPFP (child-pays-for-parent) might help (manually or an increase of the fee could be automated by the wallet every set amount of time). TL;DR: there is a free market for transactions, but the price is not dictated by the market (and there is no real bidding system), instead you suggest a fee, and see if any miner around the world wants to include it in a block (and you can adjust if the outcome isn't achieved, which has similar results to a bidding system... but is more like natural supply/demand mechanism, as miner do not guarantee to include a transaction). Helpful to see current unconfirmed transactions (and sats/vbyte): https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,30d https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,30d [info: the legend is clickable, and makes it easier to view how many higher paying transactions there are] [1]: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weight_units https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weight_units
    - imtringued 6y ago
      People with whole Bitcoin don't necessarily care about a $50 transaction fee. They still drive the transaction fees up by wasting space and thus cause people who decide to use segwit to pay more.
kaetemi 6y ago
At present time, $5 for a fast transaction with segwit.

incrudible 6y ago

> One other thing - you cant even move BTC in or out of Robinhood. Robinhood for crypto is a complete scam right now. If you buy an option for a barrel of oil, Robinhood doesn't even deliver it to you. Same for wheat and gold. What a scam! In all seriousness, if you want to speculate on the price of Bitcoin, Robinhood may be better than using some of these more sketchy exchanges that offer decent amounts of leverage. If you want to actually purchase Bitcoin, there's regulated exchanges where you can do so, though that'll probably land you on some FBI watch list.

trident5000 6y ago
"though that'll probably land you on some FBI watch list." I have no idea why you would think this.
- Imnimo 6y ago
  In a way, putting your transactions on a public ledger is like voluntarily adding yourself to a watch list. The government (and everyone else) can then come and inspect your financial history at their leisure in the future.
  - trident5000 6y ago
    Its a settlement layer. Who cares. And you think they already cant access your transactions through the traditional system? Thats how they catch criminals every year.
    - Imnimo 6y ago
      Accessing transactions in the traditional system ostensibly requires a subpoena, and is limited by jurisdiction.
      - trident5000 6y ago
        You would need the same to identify a fiat gateway with btc. You cant link a person to an account without that.

UncleMeat 6y ago

> You can also use lightning at this point in time It has a big warning saying to not use it with cash you aren't willing to lose.

ineedasername 6y ago
Neither Visa nor MasterCard have ever told me something like that.

tuesdayrain 6y ago

>One other thing - you cant even move BTC in or out of Robinhood. Robinhood for crypto is a complete scam right now. I definitely would not call that a scam. I have no reason to move my BTC.

ceejayoz 6y ago
"my"
ineedasername 6y ago
It's only a scam if you're trying to own actual bitcoin instead of simply using it as an investment vehicle. Besides, if you really want to own a given amount of bitcoins that you have in your robinhood account, you just liquidate your position in RH and use those funds to purchase bitcoins directly.

fomine3 6y ago

Why Lightning isn't adopted well? Is it unreliable or can be frauded due to it's not blockchain? What's the point to use non-blockchain tech?

trident5000 6y ago
Tech rollout takes time. Because paying for your coffee is insignificant and you dont need nuclear level security to protect it. But nevertheless it should be very secure.

chrismorgan 6y ago

> Also you can send a 50 cent tx fee and it will make it through but not be the fastest. This has tended to be true (that it’d go through within a few days), but right now it’s probably largely false. Assume a small 226 byte transaction (one input and two outputs); at $50,000 per bitcoin, 50¢ is 1000 satoshi, which is about 4.4 satoshi per byte. Per https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,30d https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,30d, transactions with fees under 5 satoshi per byte were last cleared on February 8 (~8 days ago), and before that last on January 28 (~11 days). (Before that, such transactions stalled for about 12 days in October/November; other than that, it looks like such transactions never stalled for even a week back to the January 2018 craze, to say nothing of 50¢ being more satoshi per byte back then anyway.) And if your transaction expires after a week——