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I mostly agree. A lot of American libertarianism also comes via Ayn Rand, whom I consider to be more of a liberal heretic than a conservative. "Racism is the l

by api 6y ago

I mostly agree. A lot of American libertarianism also comes via Ayn Rand, whom I consider to be more of a liberal heretic than a conservative. "Racism is the lowest form of collectivism." - Ayn Rand I've read Randian / Marxist where there is broad agreement as to many humanistic goals. There's just a deep disagreement about how best to get there. (I'm not a Randian, though I do think she's worth reading and had some valid points about a number of things.) In the past few years alt-right types have started trying to bogart the term libertarian as part of their broad recruitment efforts. I no longer use the term much for that reason. I did back when words meant things.

heavyset_go 6y ago
> In the past few years alt-right types have started trying to bogart the term libertarian as part of their broad recruitment efforts. I was part of the effort to rid r/Libertarian of the literal fascists that took over the sub a couple of years ago. It is apparently really easy to turn an Ayn Rand libertarian into a full blown fascist. At the heart of it, and to touch back on your previous points, is that right-libertarians worship hierarchy as much as their right-wing peers do. Yes, they seem to have disdain for political hierarchies, but they love market-created hierarchies. They also have no problem using state violence to enforce those hierarchies, either, so long as the state is shooting at people to protect private property. It doesn't take much to push right-libertarians into supporting the use of state violence in a very Hoppean[1] manner, either. Most right-libertarians view anyone to the left of them as an existential threat, so it isn't hard to get them to support Pinochet's helicopter rides[2] for "communists" and other perceived threats from the left. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Hermann_Hoppe#Expulsion_of_homosexuals_and_political_dissidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Hermann_Hoppe#Expulsion_o... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_flights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_flights
- jonathankoren 6y ago
  > I was part of the effort to rid r/Libertarian of the literal fascists that took over the sub a couple of years ago. It is apparently really easy to turn an Ayn Rand libertarian into a full blown fascist. That's because Ayn Rand's ideas are juvenile. They boil down to "You're special, and They are jealous of your specialness, and so keep you down." (See Fountain Head. See Atlas Shrugged.) This same idea that everything bad that happens to you because a bunch of plebes that can't stand you because you're better than them. This folds directly into to fascism's doctrine of the weak, but all oppressive scapegoat. The specifics of the scapegoat change according to time and place, but the formula remains the same.

by api 6y ago

heavyset_go 6y ago

> In the past few years alt-right types have started trying to bogart the term libertarian as part of their broad recruitment efforts. I was part of the effort to rid r/Libertarian of the literal fascists that took over the sub a couple of years ago. It is apparently really easy to turn an Ayn Rand libertarian into a full blown fascist. At the heart of it, and to touch back on your previous points, is that right-libertarians worship hierarchy as much as their right-wing peers do. Yes, they seem to have disdain for political hierarchies, but they love market-created hierarchies. They also have no problem using state violence to enforce those hierarchies, either, so long as the state is shooting at people to protect private property. It doesn't take much to push right-libertarians into supporting the use of state violence in a very Hoppean[1] manner, either. Most right-libertarians view anyone to the left of them as an existential threat, so it isn't hard to get them to support Pinochet's helicopter rides[2] for "communists" and other perceived threats from the left. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Hermann_Hoppe#Expulsion_of_homosexuals_and_political_dissidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Hermann_Hoppe#Expulsion_o... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_flights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_flights

jonathankoren 6y ago
> I was part of the effort to rid r/Libertarian of the literal fascists that took over the sub a couple of years ago. It is apparently really easy to turn an Ayn Rand libertarian into a full blown fascist. That's because Ayn Rand's ideas are juvenile. They boil down to "You're special, and They are jealous of your specialness, and so keep you down." (See Fountain Head. See Atlas Shrugged.) This same idea that everything bad that happens to you because a bunch of plebes that can't stand you because you're better than them. This folds directly into to fascism's doctrine of the weak, but all oppressive scapegoat. The specifics of the scapegoat change according to time and place, but the formula remains the same.