15 ms·

The latest commit in the repo [0] right now is "should work" (34ff295). Filtering by "bug" in the issue tracker gives: Comma two freeze and reboot while engage

The latest commit in the repo [0] right now is "should work" (34ff295). Filtering by "bug" in the issue tracker gives: Comma two freeze and reboot while engaged. I recently had an incident on the interstate where my comma two froze completely (while engaged) and rebooted. The video froze, Comma's steering torque turned off, then after about five seconds in this state, the device rebooted. Zygote restarting while OP active. So for the past couple months, after a couple days of uptime, the comma two offroad UI will glitch out. The buttons respond with highlighting upon touch, but everything else stops working. ... This time, I left the comma two to bask in its glitched state and this ended up happening; the comma two had the spinning logo, while ALSO still driving my car. In the video below, I nudge the wheel to cause on purpose ping pong to prove it was still steering. Spontaneous disengagement/reboot. Cruising on expressway and OP spontaneously disengaged and the comma2 rebooted Hard braking while following the lead car. Was following the lead car on a highway traffic jam, that car was going without lights so might be a reason. Braking was really hard when he stopped, almost hit him ) I had a feeling that C2 don't see it at all. What's more worrying is that Comma's response is often either a) declare it a hardware failure or b) basically a WONTFIX: Comma support's response is to return/exchange the unit due to presumed hardware failure. It would be nice to know what exactly happened but I get you can't thoroughly investigate every anomaly. Folks at @commma feel free to close this issue. @Torq_boi said that it is not a model bug, but old known problem with no time to brake as lead car accelerated and braked fast. (So could INDI tuning fix that problem?) Closing this issue since it probably was hardware failure. If it happens a lot it's usually a hardware failure. But try running openpilot release instead of dragonpilot before drawing any conclusions. [0] https://github.com/commaai/openpilot https://github.com/commaai/openpilot Edit: Formatting.

bko 6y ago
Cool. Now do Volvo Pilot Assist. Comma.ai is trying to do big things and I hope they succeed. No reason self-driving technology should be bundled with a car and I have little faith in auto manufacturers to deliver. Lane assist technology exists. Look at consumer reports for a comprehensive review [0] (comma.ai was #1 in lane assist, above even tesla). They are open about their mistakes, issues and tradeoffs, much more so than other companies. I don't think its right for engineers use this as a cudgel to beat them over the head. https://www.thedrive.com/news/37833/consumer-reports-ranks-this-aftermarket-driver-assistance-kit-above-tesla-autopilot-cadillac-super-cruise https://www.thedrive.com/news/37833/consumer-reports-ranks-t...
- gkop 6y ago
  The difference is that Volvo does not disclaim liability.
  - bko 6y ago
    Oh I didn't know that. Can you point me to their liability policy? [EDIT] this was the best I could find > You are always ultimately responsible for driving in a safe manner, even when using Pilot Assist. https://www.volvocars.com/uk/support/topics/use-your-car/car-functions/tips-for-using-pilot-assist https://www.volvocars.com/uk/support/topics/use-your-car/car... I don't think comma.ai should be faulted for being open. I have trouble finding any statements on liability on any other lane assist technology. Would love to be proven wrong with an actual policy.
    - gkop 6y ago
      Volvo sells a car with an optional feature that has hardware and software components. If you can prove that the hardware or software is “unreasonably dangerous” in design or implementation, you may have standing to sue Volvo. Comma sells only some hardware (with some limited software?). Comma suggests, but is careful not to encourage for street use, that customers modify the hardware with open source software that makes the hardware dramatically more useful. If the hardware functions perfectly but this software proves unreasonably dangerous, you do not likely have standing to sue Comma. I think it’s really cool that late model cars are adequately unencumbered to make experimentation like Comma possible. Aside from the sketchy commercialization, Comma seems impressive and valuable. I have seen no evidence Comma is any less safe than the auto manufacturers’ LKA products. My beef is that Comma-the-product imposes an externality on our roads by bringing experimental driver assistance software to the mass market that is not backed by the software product’s developers (or any other entity).
      - bko 6y ago
        > If you can prove that the hardware or software is “unreasonably dangerous” in design or implementation, you may have standing to sue Volvo I imagine this is true for comma as well. I don't think their little waiver and notice that it should only be used in a research setting would hold up in court. Much like "incense" were banned despite being marked "not for human consumption". > My beef is that Comma-the-product imposes an externality on our roads by bringing experimental driver assistance software to the mass market that is not backed by the software product’s developers (or any other entity). I think their product is safe and I'm glad it exists out there. They claim 35 million miles driven and I am yet to see one serious accident. So I think the risk is overstated. People like Thiel often complain about the lack of innovation. This is real innovation and could transform society. I think we should applaud the people that have the audacity to tackle hard problems that can change people's lives. The only way you'll get there is real miles driven on real roads. As a society, we should not have a zero risk attitude, otherwise nothing would ever get built.
rbrajdic 6y ago
The latest commit in the repo [0] right now is "should work" (34ff295) That's a quick UI fix from looking at the code. Not sure how that makes the product less safe.
commaai 6y ago
It's a monorepo. The "should work" commit you are referring to is about the formatting of the SSIDs in the WiFi network selection menu. https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/commit/34ff2951d4172710c35f0443f2a4a274a1b73d70 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/commit/34ff2951d4172710...
Piskvorrr 6y ago
That essentially boils down to the color of the bits. In other words, what git log says is a different bit color (technical) from what the EULA (legal) says, and you can't meaningfully use the legal-colored bits in a technical context and vice versa. In other words, if it breaks, you get to keep all the nasty pieces, not the company, because the EULA says so. ("colored bits" metaphor is from this seminal essay: https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23 https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23 )

bko 6y ago

Cool. Now do Volvo Pilot Assist. Comma.ai is trying to do big things and I hope they succeed. No reason self-driving technology should be bundled with a car and I have little faith in auto manufacturers to deliver. Lane assist technology exists. Look at consumer reports for a comprehensive review [0] (comma.ai was #1 in lane assist, above even tesla). They are open about their mistakes, issues and tradeoffs, much more so than other companies. I don't think its right for engineers use this as a cudgel to beat them over the head. https://www.thedrive.com/news/37833/consumer-reports-ranks-this-aftermarket-driver-assistance-kit-above-tesla-autopilot-cadillac-super-cruise https://www.thedrive.com/news/37833/consumer-reports-ranks-t...

gkop 6y ago
The difference is that Volvo does not disclaim liability.
- bko 6y ago
  Oh I didn't know that. Can you point me to their liability policy? [EDIT] this was the best I could find > You are always ultimately responsible for driving in a safe manner, even when using Pilot Assist. https://www.volvocars.com/uk/support/topics/use-your-car/car-functions/tips-for-using-pilot-assist https://www.volvocars.com/uk/support/topics/use-your-car/car... I don't think comma.ai should be faulted for being open. I have trouble finding any statements on liability on any other lane assist technology. Would love to be proven wrong with an actual policy.
  - gkop 6y ago
    Volvo sells a car with an optional feature that has hardware and software components. If you can prove that the hardware or software is “unreasonably dangerous” in design or implementation, you may have standing to sue Volvo. Comma sells only some hardware (with some limited software?). Comma suggests, but is careful not to encourage for street use, that customers modify the hardware with open source software that makes the hardware dramatically more useful. If the hardware functions perfectly but this software proves unreasonably dangerous, you do not likely have standing to sue Comma. I think it’s really cool that late model cars are adequately unencumbered to make experimentation like Comma possible. Aside from the sketchy commercialization, Comma seems impressive and valuable. I have seen no evidence Comma is any less safe than the auto manufacturers’ LKA products. My beef is that Comma-the-product imposes an externality on our roads by bringing experimental driver assistance software to the mass market that is not backed by the software product’s developers (or any other entity).
    - bko 6y ago
      > If you can prove that the hardware or software is “unreasonably dangerous” in design or implementation, you may have standing to sue Volvo I imagine this is true for comma as well. I don't think their little waiver and notice that it should only be used in a research setting would hold up in court. Much like "incense" were banned despite being marked "not for human consumption". > My beef is that Comma-the-product imposes an externality on our roads by bringing experimental driver assistance software to the mass market that is not backed by the software product’s developers (or any other entity). I think their product is safe and I'm glad it exists out there. They claim 35 million miles driven and I am yet to see one serious accident. So I think the risk is overstated. People like Thiel often complain about the lack of innovation. This is real innovation and could transform society. I think we should applaud the people that have the audacity to tackle hard problems that can change people's lives. The only way you'll get there is real miles driven on real roads. As a society, we should not have a zero risk attitude, otherwise nothing would ever get built.

rbrajdic 6y ago

The latest commit in the repo [0] right now is "should work" (34ff295) That's a quick UI fix from looking at the code. Not sure how that makes the product less safe.

commaai 6y ago

It's a monorepo. The "should work" commit you are referring to is about the formatting of the SSIDs in the WiFi network selection menu. https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/commit/34ff2951d4172710c35f0443f2a4a274a1b73d70 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/commit/34ff2951d4172710...

Piskvorrr 6y ago

That essentially boils down to the color of the bits. In other words, what git log says is a different bit color (technical) from what the EULA (legal) says, and you can't meaningfully use the legal-colored bits in a technical context and vice versa. In other words, if it breaks, you get to keep all the nasty pieces, not the company, because the EULA says so. ("colored bits" metaphor is from this seminal essay: https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23 https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23 )