3 ms·

Please take note that Spotify pays sub-market salaries for these cities. The reason being that they do not offer RSUs but instead public stock options without a

Please take note that Spotify pays sub-market salaries for these cities. The reason being that they do not offer RSUs but instead public stock options without any discount. - Typical FAANG compensation: X base pay + Y RSUs + Z signing bonus - Spotify: X base pay + Y stock options (public, so equivalent to you purchasing stocks really) + no signing bonus

doctorbaum 6y ago
What's the difference, for the laymen
- tomerico 6y ago
  You only earn money if the stock price appreciate
  - closetnerd 6y ago
    I'm envious of your laymen speak. Exactly right. RSU means they gave you the stock at price X. Options mean, they gave you the right to buy the stock at price X sometime in the future.
  - dominotw 6y ago
    so its like call options where employer eats the option fee?
    - TheCoelacanth 6y ago
      Yes, except I think they usually just issue new stock when you exercise and dilute the existing owners instead of actually paying someone else for an option.
- iso1210 6y ago
  Say Spotify's share price is $100, and as part of your compensation you are given an option to buy 100 shares at $100 in 5 years time If Spotify in 5 years time is $500, you buy 100 shares for $10k, and immediately sell them for $50k, making a $40k profit (or you keep them). If Spotify in 5 years time is $102, you buy 100 shares for $10k and sell for $10,200, making $200 If Spotify shares in 5 years times is $90, you don't bother buying the shares, but your options are worthless. Now imagine you were given 100 shares instead, but couldn't sell them for 5 years (an RSU - or restricted stock unit) In 5 years time, if Spotify is $500/share, your shares are worth $50k In 5 years time, if Spotify is $102/share, your shares are worth $10,200 In 5 years time, if Spotify is $90/share, your shares are worth $9,000
  - maria_weber23 6y ago
    Yeah this model sucks, unless they give you A LOT more of these options than they would give you RSUs. Then it could work out, if you believe in the company.
onion2k 6y ago
The pay isn't particularly attractive compared to other tech companies in those cities, but it's still massively better than 99% of other places in the world.
88840-8855 6y ago
This is ridiculous. I find well paid devs super arrogant. Some of them made 150k, 200k, 250k - while other people, also qualified, make salaries that are not enough to start a family and have a decent life.
- nassycheezy 6y ago
  Fully agree, this is why I didn't put numbers and only mentioned pay structure and market rate.
- dt3ft 6y ago
  What are you trying to say? Anyone can demand a greater salary if their qualifications are in demand. If they are not - they should consider working on learning new skills which are in demand.
  - vinger 6y ago
    What would you recommend now?
    - dt3ft 6y ago
      Other than learning skills (getting new qualifications because your current qualifications are not in demand) which are in demand and pay what you wish to be paid?
- yowlingcat 6y ago
  > Some of them made 150k, 200k, 250k - while other people, also qualified, make salaries that are not enough to start a family and have a decent life. I don't understand why they are arrogant. Is it because despite making that level (which is objectively nowhere near the ceiling for global SDE salaries), they still want more? I can understand the cognitive dissonance of viewing that number without context, but I think it might be worth taking a look at something like levels.fyi. Look at engineer salaries at FAANGs at top hubs such as SF, NYC, LDN. The reason they are so high is because the companies need to pay that amount to get access to the talent they need to run their companies. If they could pay less, they'd save billions (maybe trillions), so they would have already tried that. And indeed they did, before they got taken to court for collusion lawsuits. The truth is, as high as engineer and tech salaries are, they're high for a reason. They get very expensive things done. I don't see anything arrogant about that. On the contrary, what I would find arrogant is expecting them to do that without taking their fair share.
wan23 6y ago
Spotify gives you the choice of RSUs or options or straight cash. https://hrblog.spotify.com/2019/06/13/show-me-the-incentive/ https://hrblog.spotify.com/2019/06/13/show-me-the-incentive/
- nassycheezy 6y ago
  Cool, they must have changed their comp structure then as the previous model was an immediate "no-no".
TheCoelacanth 6y ago
Stock options aren't equivalent to just buying stock. They are equivalent to letting you travel back in time to the date when the strike price was set to buy stock based on your future knowledge (and using your future money). That's obviously not worthless. It's much harder to determine the value of than RSUs, but it's potentially very valuable.

doctorbaum 6y ago

What's the difference, for the laymen

tomerico 6y ago
You only earn money if the stock price appreciate
- closetnerd 6y ago
  I'm envious of your laymen speak. Exactly right. RSU means they gave you the stock at price X. Options mean, they gave you the right to buy the stock at price X sometime in the future.
- dominotw 6y ago
  so its like call options where employer eats the option fee?
  - TheCoelacanth 6y ago
    Yes, except I think they usually just issue new stock when you exercise and dilute the existing owners instead of actually paying someone else for an option.
iso1210 6y ago
Say Spotify's share price is $100, and as part of your compensation you are given an option to buy 100 shares at $100 in 5 years time If Spotify in 5 years time is $500, you buy 100 shares for $10k, and immediately sell them for $50k, making a $40k profit (or you keep them). If Spotify in 5 years time is $102, you buy 100 shares for $10k and sell for $10,200, making $200 If Spotify shares in 5 years times is $90, you don't bother buying the shares, but your options are worthless. Now imagine you were given 100 shares instead, but couldn't sell them for 5 years (an RSU - or restricted stock unit) In 5 years time, if Spotify is $500/share, your shares are worth $50k In 5 years time, if Spotify is $102/share, your shares are worth $10,200 In 5 years time, if Spotify is $90/share, your shares are worth $9,000
- maria_weber23 6y ago
  Yeah this model sucks, unless they give you A LOT more of these options than they would give you RSUs. Then it could work out, if you believe in the company.

onion2k 6y ago

The pay isn't particularly attractive compared to other tech companies in those cities, but it's still massively better than 99% of other places in the world.

88840-8855 6y ago

This is ridiculous. I find well paid devs super arrogant. Some of them made 150k, 200k, 250k - while other people, also qualified, make salaries that are not enough to start a family and have a decent life.

nassycheezy 6y ago
Fully agree, this is why I didn't put numbers and only mentioned pay structure and market rate.
dt3ft 6y ago
What are you trying to say? Anyone can demand a greater salary if their qualifications are in demand. If they are not - they should consider working on learning new skills which are in demand.
- vinger 6y ago
  What would you recommend now?
  - dt3ft 6y ago
    Other than learning skills (getting new qualifications because your current qualifications are not in demand) which are in demand and pay what you wish to be paid?
yowlingcat 6y ago
> Some of them made 150k, 200k, 250k - while other people, also qualified, make salaries that are not enough to start a family and have a decent life. I don't understand why they are arrogant. Is it because despite making that level (which is objectively nowhere near the ceiling for global SDE salaries), they still want more? I can understand the cognitive dissonance of viewing that number without context, but I think it might be worth taking a look at something like levels.fyi. Look at engineer salaries at FAANGs at top hubs such as SF, NYC, LDN. The reason they are so high is because the companies need to pay that amount to get access to the talent they need to run their companies. If they could pay less, they'd save billions (maybe trillions), so they would have already tried that. And indeed they did, before they got taken to court for collusion lawsuits. The truth is, as high as engineer and tech salaries are, they're high for a reason. They get very expensive things done. I don't see anything arrogant about that. On the contrary, what I would find arrogant is expecting them to do that without taking their fair share.

wan23 6y ago

Spotify gives you the choice of RSUs or options or straight cash. https://hrblog.spotify.com/2019/06/13/show-me-the-incentive/ https://hrblog.spotify.com/2019/06/13/show-me-the-incentive/

nassycheezy 6y ago
Cool, they must have changed their comp structure then as the previous model was an immediate "no-no".

TheCoelacanth 6y ago

Stock options aren't equivalent to just buying stock. They are equivalent to letting you travel back in time to the date when the strike price was set to buy stock based on your future knowledge (and using your future money). That's obviously not worthless. It's much harder to determine the value of than RSUs, but it's potentially very valuable.