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I'm thoroughly convinced companies like Pine64 are going to completely displace Google (and perhaps even Apple) because they work with rather than against the d

by swiley 6y ago

I'm thoroughly convinced companies like Pine64 are going to completely displace Google (and perhaps even Apple) because they work with rather than against the developer community. I've owned a pinephone since the early fall of last year and have had to hack around and generally put up with bugs just to do normal stuff, but at this point everything needed to use it as a PDA works well and the modem related issues are being solved very quickly. It probably won't be long before the phone will be the more sensible alternative to an android.

tw04 6y ago
>I'm thoroughly convinced companies like Pine64 are going to completely displace Google (and perhaps even Apple) because they work with rather than against the developer community. I applaud your enthusiasm but there's no planet on which Pine64 replaces Google or Apple. Unless they somehow convince the likes of someone like Samsung to make the switch, their market share will be measured in basis points. The average consumer doesn't care at all how Google and Apple treat developers. And the average developer is going to go to the place they make money, even if it's more painful to do business with those giants.
- cogman10 6y ago
  Microsoft leaving the phone market is where I'd point. They were also very developer friendly but far too late to the market. I don't even think Samsung can get away from android. They are trying with tizen but the ecosystem is hard to escape.
  - benjohnson 6y ago
    It was my understanding that Microsoft pulled the rug out from developers multiple times by making new OS versions not quite backwards compatible.
    - Snitch-Thursday 6y ago
      iirc the extreme TL;DR of that was this: rewrite your windows mobile 5/6 apps for windows phone 7? ok, its a brand new platform, i get it. rewrite wp 7 for windows phone 8? ok... (there may have been wp7 mango that needed tweaks but my memory is too fuzzy) rewrite windows phone 8 for 8.1 ? cmon now rewrite windows phone 8.1 for wm 10? no
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Followed by "rewrite UWP for Reunion, sorry about the left turn with Windows 8, and don't use that C++ Builder like tooling any longer, IDL without VS support rulez".
- swiley 6y ago
  They don't care who makes the phone but they do care: 1) about the phone not shipping with malware 2) about the phone not working after 2 years 3) apps no longer working because the only OS vendor for your phone disagrees about something with the developer As for what developers care about: commercial devs will avoid the pinephone and IMO that's a good thing.
  - tw04 6y ago
    >1) about the phone not shipping with malware Given the number of people who have no issues installing Zoom or TikTok, I'm not sure I buy that. >2) about the phone not working after 2 years The average consumer has to have the latest and greatest every 2 years whether the old phone still works or not. >3) apps no longer working because the only OS vendor for your phone disagrees about something with the developer The number of parler users willing to give up their iPhone for parler isn't even a blip on the radar. They won't even switch to android for it, why do you think they'd switch to Pine?
    - war1025 6y ago
      > The average consumer has to have the latest and greatest every 2 years whether the old phone still works or not. My experience is that my older relatives get new phones frequently because they get their old ones so malware laden that they no longer function correctly. That and apps grind to a halt because the developers use top of the line hardware and don't notice how wasteful of resources they are being.
      - homarp 6y ago
        but your older relative also expects: a) the bank app to install b) the whatsapp or whatever "everyone my age uses that" they are using to install c) candycrush or whatever is the trendy game of the moment to install d) Netflix/Disney+/... app to install I really doubt these will ever be ported to PinePhone. And then, if they were, I am sure malware would also be ported, so back to square one.
  - macksd 6y ago
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
People today expect more from their phones than just basic PDA functionality. They want to consume lots of media on the phone, and sometimes even produce it. The Allwinner A64 CPU in the PinePhone is antiquated and underpowered compared to any midrange Android phone today, making it barely possible to even browse the modern web. Today many smartphones are popular precisely due to their camera, but the PinePhone’s is low-quality and even with some software tweaks will remain that way forever. So, the PinePhone attracts its niche audience of technies like us, but forget about mass adoption. Reports on the PinePhone forum suggest it'll be 4–5 years before the next PinePhone with a better chip comes along (and by then, even that chip may seem old), so don’t expect this situation to change anytime soon. Vanilla Linux on the PinePhone is also missing numerous battery optimizations found on Android that would give people the battery life they expect today.

by swiley 6y ago

tw04 6y ago

>I'm thoroughly convinced companies like Pine64 are going to completely displace Google (and perhaps even Apple) because they work with rather than against the developer community. I applaud your enthusiasm but there's no planet on which Pine64 replaces Google or Apple. Unless they somehow convince the likes of someone like Samsung to make the switch, their market share will be measured in basis points. The average consumer doesn't care at all how Google and Apple treat developers. And the average developer is going to go to the place they make money, even if it's more painful to do business with those giants.

cogman10 6y ago
Microsoft leaving the phone market is where I'd point. They were also very developer friendly but far too late to the market. I don't even think Samsung can get away from android. They are trying with tizen but the ecosystem is hard to escape.
- benjohnson 6y ago
  It was my understanding that Microsoft pulled the rug out from developers multiple times by making new OS versions not quite backwards compatible.
  - Snitch-Thursday 6y ago
    iirc the extreme TL;DR of that was this: rewrite your windows mobile 5/6 apps for windows phone 7? ok, its a brand new platform, i get it. rewrite wp 7 for windows phone 8? ok... (there may have been wp7 mango that needed tweaks but my memory is too fuzzy) rewrite windows phone 8 for 8.1 ? cmon now rewrite windows phone 8.1 for wm 10? no
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Followed by "rewrite UWP for Reunion, sorry about the left turn with Windows 8, and don't use that C++ Builder like tooling any longer, IDL without VS support rulez".
swiley 6y ago
They don't care who makes the phone but they do care: 1) about the phone not shipping with malware 2) about the phone not working after 2 years 3) apps no longer working because the only OS vendor for your phone disagrees about something with the developer As for what developers care about: commercial devs will avoid the pinephone and IMO that's a good thing.
- tw04 6y ago
  >1) about the phone not shipping with malware Given the number of people who have no issues installing Zoom or TikTok, I'm not sure I buy that. >2) about the phone not working after 2 years The average consumer has to have the latest and greatest every 2 years whether the old phone still works or not. >3) apps no longer working because the only OS vendor for your phone disagrees about something with the developer The number of parler users willing to give up their iPhone for parler isn't even a blip on the radar. They won't even switch to android for it, why do you think they'd switch to Pine?
  - war1025 6y ago
    > The average consumer has to have the latest and greatest every 2 years whether the old phone still works or not. My experience is that my older relatives get new phones frequently because they get their old ones so malware laden that they no longer function correctly. That and apps grind to a halt because the developers use top of the line hardware and don't notice how wasteful of resources they are being.
    - homarp 6y ago
      but your older relative also expects: a) the bank app to install b) the whatsapp or whatever "everyone my age uses that" they are using to install c) candycrush or whatever is the trendy game of the moment to install d) Netflix/Disney+/... app to install I really doubt these will ever be ported to PinePhone. And then, if they were, I am sure malware would also be ported, so back to square one.
- macksd 6y ago

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

People today expect more from their phones than just basic PDA functionality. They want to consume lots of media on the phone, and sometimes even produce it. The Allwinner A64 CPU in the PinePhone is antiquated and underpowered compared to any midrange Android phone today, making it barely possible to even browse the modern web. Today many smartphones are popular precisely due to their camera, but the PinePhone’s is low-quality and even with some software tweaks will remain that way forever. So, the PinePhone attracts its niche audience of technies like us, but forget about mass adoption. Reports on the PinePhone forum suggest it'll be 4–5 years before the next PinePhone with a better chip comes along (and by then, even that chip may seem old), so don’t expect this situation to change anytime soon. Vanilla Linux on the PinePhone is also missing numerous battery optimizations found on Android that would give people the battery life they expect today.