4 ms·

Working Hard With No Regrets

58 points by gregbayer 15y ago

bjelkeman-again 15y ago
Working hard can be very rewarding. But for the long haul you need balance or you will burn out. Find out what your balance is before you hit the wall.
flarg 15y ago
Some people don't understand how much hacking is fun for some of us; money, fame, fortune, the monthly check from a shady employer - they are are just useful side-effects.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
gst 15y ago
It all depends on the type of your work. While I did my PhD I've often worked multiple days without a real sleep in between, because some problems were so interesting to me. At those times I would wake up in the night, think about how I can more effectively implement something, and then spend the remainder of the night hacking on the problem. I didn't even really consider this as work, but more as side-project for which I have infinite time and for which I'm getting paid for. On the other hand, there are also some dull works you have to do as a research assistant, such as writing project reports, so that the funding agency continues to send you money. When working on those kinds of things it often took less than 8 hours until brain fog set in and forced me to work on more interesting things. If writing those reports would have been a full-time job I'm sure I wouldn't even have handled standard 9-to-5 work without going crazy.
coenhyde 15y ago
Work hard, just don't push yourself harder than you find enjoyable. For a lot of us that threshold is extremely high for hacking. This has always been my philosophy and it work really well for a long time. I broke it recently and paid the price.
jamesbkel 15y ago
I think this boils to down to definition of working hard. For a lot of my friends, that would mean "working more at the same thing". I've been in the same situation as described in the OP, but I would call it "working hard at something new". That may entail more work, but man, once you nail it, that's a great feeling. You're not going to get that when you go from 100 support tickets/day to 1000 or even 10,000 - or something similarly routine. Often, once I actually explain what I was doing during that 120hr week or all-nighter my friends typically respond: "Oh, that's pretty cool. I wish I did stuff like that." I'm not saying friend and family aren't important, but I think this quote from the OP sums it up: >However, sometimes I do get caught up in chasing my dreams and forget to make time for friends and family.
pgbovine 15y ago
Ha, way to self-post, greg ;) but it seems like people are feelin' your article, so keep up the good work. My oversimplified view of the world is that there's a 2x2 matrix: {need to work hard, don't need to work hard} x {doing what you love, doing what you don't love}. you're obviously in (1,1). i think the goal is to avoid (1,2) at all costs. i imagine that most people's jobs are in (2,2), which is fine and better than (1,2).
- swombat 15y ago
  There's nothing wrong with self-posting on HN.
sixtofour 15y ago
I wonder how long you can get away with abusing your health? I wonder how much longer older people would feel young if they hadn't abused their health?
jakeludington 15y ago
Is it truly work if you are enjoying what you are doing? One of the keys to avoiding regret is to figure out how the things you need to do and the things you love to do can be one and the same.
Mz 15y ago
However, sometimes I do get caught up in chasing my dreams and forget to make time for friends and family. Just like realizing dreams, successful relationships are built on quality time spent together. I always appreciate being reminded to dedicate more time to this essential part of life, as I was today. I’d love to hear your thoughts or personal experiences on achieving the right balance. Work and family/friends are big priorities in my life. I don't see what the issue is. I think most folks piss too much time away on hobbies, seeing the latest movie, filling their lives with material crapola, unnecessarily long commutes and other pointless "filler". If you keep those things under control, I think there is time for both work and "love"/relationships.
dreamdu5t 15y ago
Please let us end the myth of staying up all night as some noble right of passage, or that if you don't find this enjoyable you're not really a hacker or you don't enjoy your work. I'm a hacker. I don't enjoy hacking for 18 hours straight because I feel tired and groggy unless I take drugs. I work better when I'm rested and focused. Everybody does.
- rewind 15y ago
  Everybody does some of the time, but not everybody does all of the time. I can relate: there is nothing like being tired, going to bed, have a hard/frustrating problem roll around in your head, come up with a solution you were agonizing over, then be wide awake, get up, hit the computer, then crank out code until your body puts you back to sleep. It's one of the most rewarding (and rare) experiences of a hacker-entrepreneur. Sometimes you don't get this unless you've been head-down, balls-out. When I'm meandering through a problem instead of pouring everything into it, I rarely get these sorts of "eureka" moments.
  - dreamdu5t 15y ago
    there is nothing like being tired, going to bed, have a hard/frustrating problem roll around in your head, come up with a solution you were agonizing over, then be wide awake, get up, hit the computer, then crank out code until your body puts you back to sleep. If you're going to bed, that's not what I'm talking about. The blog post speaks about working on 3 hours of sleep. Sometimes you don't get this unless you've been head-down, balls-out. See this is what I'm talking about. This idea that you're not a "real hacker" unless you enjoy staying up all night.
    - rewind 15y ago
      My comment was an aside. I never implied being a real hacker means staying up all night. I don't enjoy it (although I like fighting off the fatigue when I'm really enjoying my work). I was just relating the circumstances that lead up to memorable moments for me.
    - rowaway1 15y ago

58 points by gregbayer 15y ago

Working hard can be very rewarding. But for the long haul you need balance or you will burn out. Find out what your balance is before you hit the wall.

flarg 15y ago

Some people don't understand how much hacking is fun for some of us; money, fame, fortune, the monthly check from a shady employer - they are are just useful side-effects.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

gst 15y ago

It all depends on the type of your work. While I did my PhD I've often worked multiple days without a real sleep in between, because some problems were so interesting to me. At those times I would wake up in the night, think about how I can more effectively implement something, and then spend the remainder of the night hacking on the problem. I didn't even really consider this as work, but more as side-project for which I have infinite time and for which I'm getting paid for. On the other hand, there are also some dull works you have to do as a research assistant, such as writing project reports, so that the funding agency continues to send you money. When working on those kinds of things it often took less than 8 hours until brain fog set in and forced me to work on more interesting things. If writing those reports would have been a full-time job I'm sure I wouldn't even have handled standard 9-to-5 work without going crazy.

coenhyde 15y ago

Work hard, just don't push yourself harder than you find enjoyable. For a lot of us that threshold is extremely high for hacking. This has always been my philosophy and it work really well for a long time. I broke it recently and paid the price.

jamesbkel 15y ago

I think this boils to down to definition of working hard. For a lot of my friends, that would mean "working more at the same thing". I've been in the same situation as described in the OP, but I would call it "working hard at something new". That may entail more work, but man, once you nail it, that's a great feeling. You're not going to get that when you go from 100 support tickets/day to 1000 or even 10,000 - or something similarly routine. Often, once I actually explain what I was doing during that 120hr week or all-nighter my friends typically respond: "Oh, that's pretty cool. I wish I did stuff like that." I'm not saying friend and family aren't important, but I think this quote from the OP sums it up: >However, sometimes I do get caught up in chasing my dreams and forget to make time for friends and family.

pgbovine 15y ago

Ha, way to self-post, greg ;) but it seems like people are feelin' your article, so keep up the good work. My oversimplified view of the world is that there's a 2x2 matrix: {need to work hard, don't need to work hard} x {doing what you love, doing what you don't love}. you're obviously in (1,1). i think the goal is to avoid (1,2) at all costs. i imagine that most people's jobs are in (2,2), which is fine and better than (1,2).

swombat 15y ago
There's nothing wrong with self-posting on HN.

sixtofour 15y ago

I wonder how long you can get away with abusing your health? I wonder how much longer older people would feel young if they hadn't abused their health?

jakeludington 15y ago

Is it truly work if you are enjoying what you are doing? One of the keys to avoiding regret is to figure out how the things you need to do and the things you love to do can be one and the same.

Mz 15y ago

However, sometimes I do get caught up in chasing my dreams and forget to make time for friends and family. Just like realizing dreams, successful relationships are built on quality time spent together. I always appreciate being reminded to dedicate more time to this essential part of life, as I was today. I’d love to hear your thoughts or personal experiences on achieving the right balance. Work and family/friends are big priorities in my life. I don't see what the issue is. I think most folks piss too much time away on hobbies, seeing the latest movie, filling their lives with material crapola, unnecessarily long commutes and other pointless "filler". If you keep those things under control, I think there is time for both work and "love"/relationships.

dreamdu5t 15y ago

Please let us end the myth of staying up all night as some noble right of passage, or that if you don't find this enjoyable you're not really a hacker or you don't enjoy your work. I'm a hacker. I don't enjoy hacking for 18 hours straight because I feel tired and groggy unless I take drugs. I work better when I'm rested and focused. Everybody does.

rewind 15y ago
Everybody does some of the time, but not everybody does all of the time. I can relate: there is nothing like being tired, going to bed, have a hard/frustrating problem roll around in your head, come up with a solution you were agonizing over, then be wide awake, get up, hit the computer, then crank out code until your body puts you back to sleep. It's one of the most rewarding (and rare) experiences of a hacker-entrepreneur. Sometimes you don't get this unless you've been head-down, balls-out. When I'm meandering through a problem instead of pouring everything into it, I rarely get these sorts of "eureka" moments.
- dreamdu5t 15y ago
  there is nothing like being tired, going to bed, have a hard/frustrating problem roll around in your head, come up with a solution you were agonizing over, then be wide awake, get up, hit the computer, then crank out code until your body puts you back to sleep. If you're going to bed, that's not what I'm talking about. The blog post speaks about working on 3 hours of sleep. Sometimes you don't get this unless you've been head-down, balls-out. See this is what I'm talking about. This idea that you're not a "real hacker" unless you enjoy staying up all night.
  - rewind 15y ago
    My comment was an aside. I never implied being a real hacker means staying up all night. I don't enjoy it (although I like fighting off the fatigue when I'm really enjoying my work). I was just relating the circumstances that lead up to memorable moments for me.
  - rowaway1 15y ago