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Don't understand why this is down voted, it's being one paycheck away from poverty that keep 70% of Americans from telling off their bosses

loopz 6y ago
The post includes opposite thoughts, and such gets downvoted on HN.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
It's funny how this goes. Capitalism is great because it promises individual freedom and giving everyone what they wants, while also holding 70% of Americans at economical gunpoint, justifying that with "well if everyone truly got what they want, nobody would produce and civilization would collapse". Perhaps the capitalists should drop the talk about freedom and voluntary trade. Or we need a new word for "freedom" that doesn't classify structurally coerced choices as "free".
- imtringued 6y ago
  >Capitalism is great because it promises individual freedom and giving everyone what they wants, while also holding 70% of Americans at economical gunpoint If government policies are set in a way that encourages this outcome then that's what you get. It doesn't have to be that way.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    You don't need government policies that encourage this outcome - this outcome is the default. Money begets money, wealth accumulates where there is more wealth. You need active government policies to prevent/reverse that, but those are hard to maintain because wealth also buys power.
    - username90 6y ago
      Wealth doesn't buy power directly. In a democracy most power comes from voters, so the only way to buy political power via wealth is to affect the voting process by spreading misinformation or manipulating the people. For example in USA the voters are made to believe that they can only vote for people who has spent their lived taking bribes from corporations. That of course isn't true, but as long as people believe it then it money is power. In nations where people don't believe such blatant lies money doesn't turn into power nearly as easily. And look, poor people in those countries are actually much better cared for and live better lives than in USA! The bottom 90% are 90% of voters and therefore have all the power to make whatever policies they want. And once the 90% makes a lot of policies it is really hard to stop them from continuing doing that, you have to work really really hard to keep them away from power and to continue keeping them away.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    Either they are structural outcomes of capitalism, or capitalism doesn't really matter, quality of governance does. You responce sounds like you are trying to have it both ways

loopz 6y ago

The post includes opposite thoughts, and such gets downvoted on HN.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

It's funny how this goes. Capitalism is great because it promises individual freedom and giving everyone what they wants, while also holding 70% of Americans at economical gunpoint, justifying that with "well if everyone truly got what they want, nobody would produce and civilization would collapse". Perhaps the capitalists should drop the talk about freedom and voluntary trade. Or we need a new word for "freedom" that doesn't classify structurally coerced choices as "free".

imtringued 6y ago
>Capitalism is great because it promises individual freedom and giving everyone what they wants, while also holding 70% of Americans at economical gunpoint If government policies are set in a way that encourages this outcome then that's what you get. It doesn't have to be that way.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  You don't need government policies that encourage this outcome - this outcome is the default. Money begets money, wealth accumulates where there is more wealth. You need active government policies to prevent/reverse that, but those are hard to maintain because wealth also buys power.
  - username90 6y ago
    Wealth doesn't buy power directly. In a democracy most power comes from voters, so the only way to buy political power via wealth is to affect the voting process by spreading misinformation or manipulating the people. For example in USA the voters are made to believe that they can only vote for people who has spent their lived taking bribes from corporations. That of course isn't true, but as long as people believe it then it money is power. In nations where people don't believe such blatant lies money doesn't turn into power nearly as easily. And look, poor people in those countries are actually much better cared for and live better lives than in USA! The bottom 90% are 90% of voters and therefore have all the power to make whatever policies they want. And once the 90% makes a lot of policies it is really hard to stop them from continuing doing that, you have to work really really hard to keep them away from power and to continue keeping them away.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  Either they are structural outcomes of capitalism, or capitalism doesn't really matter, quality of governance does. You responce sounds like you are trying to have it both ways