4 ms·

> But HN has a highly disproportionate number of Valley and NYC residents. They're all getting [big] pay cuts if you get rid of location-based pay. The biggest

> But HN has a highly disproportionate number of Valley and NYC residents. They're all getting [big] pay cuts if you get rid of location-based pay. The biggest (but not only) reason someone in SF makes $250k+ total comp is because it's so expensive to live in SF. I'd argue that this isn't really what location based pay is worried about. In this case, you're being paid specifically be close to some location or collective building because your employer values that collectiveness. That's okay. That's the company communicating "we value the ability for you to be here, in person, with this group of people - so we're going to incentivize it". The problem with location based pay is when an employer says, "You can work from anywhere you want, but we want to know where that is so we can pay you less". You provide them the same value from mid-city America as you do in rural America. They simply want to pay you less when they can.

llbeansandrice 6y ago
This exactly. If they want me to live somewhere specific they should pay me more to live there. If my employer isn't requiring me to love somewhere, I should be compensated for my value and work, not judged for living where and how I choose.
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  > I should be compensated for my value and work, No, you are compensated for how much someone doing the same work would demand.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    Yes, so if we all demand that that isn’t based on where we live we should be fine right? I don’t understand why pepple keep repeating this. Obviously we are paid what they can get away with. We’re just trying to change what that is. If everyone starts accepting location based pay, we’ll be fucked in the long term. Or, well. It’s strictly better for me if I get paid SF wages anywhere in the world.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      A far more likely outcome is that this would converge on being paid something like Prague/Barcelona wages anywhere in the world. (Think 50-75% of Kansas City, Des Moines, Pittsburgh wages today.) There is, obviously, incredible incentive to defect. If you're going to demand 100% of SF wages, I can improve my lot by demanding 99%. Then the next SWE can undercut me at only 98%, and so on.
  - fxtentacle 6y ago
    You are assuming that the employer had many candidates to choose from. Usually, that is not really the case. Like the original comment said, most programmers probably need to read a book about negotiation so that they can clearly communicate their skills and why they are not easily replaceable. Once you're established as an unique professional with an unique skill mix, you'll be compensated for how much the team to replace you would cost.
    - SkyPuncher 6y ago
      You don't need an exact equivalent. You simply need the idea of an equivalent and an idea of the cost/value of such a candidate. A candidate can't ask for an obviously uncompetitive salary, but they can ask on the high end for what a company expects to pay for an employee.
  - hammock 6y ago
    Yep, both sides have a BATNA
lucideer 6y ago
> so we can pay you less Setting aside that obviously, on an individual level, an employer will typically want to pay you as little as they can get away with, this isn't how location based pay works at a macro level. Saying "You can work from anywhere you want, but we want to know where that is so we can pay you more" is an equally (in)valid statement since it's about pay distribution.

llbeansandrice 6y ago

This exactly. If they want me to live somewhere specific they should pay me more to live there. If my employer isn't requiring me to love somewhere, I should be compensated for my value and work, not judged for living where and how I choose.

alisonkisk 6y ago
> I should be compensated for my value and work, No, you are compensated for how much someone doing the same work would demand.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  Yes, so if we all demand that that isn’t based on where we live we should be fine right? I don’t understand why pepple keep repeating this. Obviously we are paid what they can get away with. We’re just trying to change what that is. If everyone starts accepting location based pay, we’ll be fucked in the long term. Or, well. It’s strictly better for me if I get paid SF wages anywhere in the world.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    A far more likely outcome is that this would converge on being paid something like Prague/Barcelona wages anywhere in the world. (Think 50-75% of Kansas City, Des Moines, Pittsburgh wages today.) There is, obviously, incredible incentive to defect. If you're going to demand 100% of SF wages, I can improve my lot by demanding 99%. Then the next SWE can undercut me at only 98%, and so on.
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  You are assuming that the employer had many candidates to choose from. Usually, that is not really the case. Like the original comment said, most programmers probably need to read a book about negotiation so that they can clearly communicate their skills and why they are not easily replaceable. Once you're established as an unique professional with an unique skill mix, you'll be compensated for how much the team to replace you would cost.
  - SkyPuncher 6y ago
    You don't need an exact equivalent. You simply need the idea of an equivalent and an idea of the cost/value of such a candidate. A candidate can't ask for an obviously uncompetitive salary, but they can ask on the high end for what a company expects to pay for an employee.
- hammock 6y ago
  Yep, both sides have a BATNA

lucideer 6y ago

> so we can pay you less Setting aside that obviously, on an individual level, an employer will typically want to pay you as little as they can get away with, this isn't how location based pay works at a macro level. Saying "You can work from anywhere you want, but we want to know where that is so we can pay you more" is an equally (in)valid statement since it's about pay distribution.