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Bitcoin has been running non-stop for the past 12 years, used by tens of millions of people,has a market cap of 1 Trillion and all that while protecting the hum

Bitcoin has been running non-stop for the past 12 years, used by tens of millions of people,has a market cap of 1 Trillion and all that while protecting the human rights around the world: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ldyy7s/bitcoin_is_protecting_human_rights_around_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ldyy7s/bitcoin_is_... But even if you are clueless enough to think that Bitcoin and blockchain isn't working at least you should appreciate all the breakthroughs in cryptography like Zero Knowledge proofs, networking like libp2p, distributed storage like ipfs etc. that emerged from the evolution of cryptocurrency tech.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
floo 6y ago
Bitcoin has all of the problems listed in the article and is, arguably, not yet providing the social value that blockchain could. Not sure how a high market cap is a counter argument to that.
- genericacct 6y ago
  Especially considering market cap is a totally made up number and if everybody tried to get out at once they would get a fraction of a fraction of it. (1) But it's pointless to tell this to a cryptofreak because they're so heavily invested in it they make zealots look reasonable. (1) not to mention the fact that as soon as there is volatility exchange sites go down, even the bigger ones.
  - RurouniK 6y ago
    Wait until you find out what happens when people try to take out their money all at once from banks... I remember back in the day when people used to call early internet users internetfreaks and zealots. Now it's the same with Bitcoin. Whatever...
    - janoc 6y ago
      Yes, we all remember well what happened e.g. with Mt Gox. Not sure what your point here is - as if panic and runs on the banks were somehow magically prevented by crypto.
      - AngrySkillzz 6y ago
        And the hilarious part is, we actually have regulations like capital requirements and FDIC insurance and central bank lenders-of-last-resort to prevent bank runs? Whereas crypto has... none of that? And unaudited Tether pumping >$1B into the crypto ecosystem every week
  - seibelj 6y ago
    If everyone tried to get out of any asset at once the price would tank. That’s how markets work.
- RurouniK 6y ago
  The market cap is a counter argument because it shows the trust people, and lately corporations put into Bitcoin as a store of wealth and a hedge against inflation. The market cap proves that bitcoin/blockchain/cryptocurrency enthusiasts put their money where their mouth is.
  - bildung 6y ago
    I hardly doubt you'll find any enconomist working in those corporations fearing inflation. Inflation has been a non-issue since the 1980s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Consumer_Price_Index#/media/File:US_Consumer_Price_Index_Graph.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Consumer_Price_I...
    - andreaorru 6y ago
      And yet... https://wtfhappenedin1971.com https://wtfhappenedin1971.com
      - bildung 6y ago
        That page reminds me a bit of time cube :) Here is a good introductory article about the topic: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/02/25/wage-stagnation-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/02/25/wage-stagnation-much-m... TL;DR: Inflation plays at most a secondary role, the majority of the effect is a result of stagnant real wages, i.e. the capital owners kept a larger share of the productivity gains.
        andreaorru 6y ago
        Thanks, that looks amazing. It's gonna take me a while to digest it though. :) Does the article conclude that the correlation with the US going off the gold standard, and consequent change in monetary policy, is completely spurious?
        bildung 6y ago
rullelito 6y ago
Maybe you should try to read the linked page.
gjulianm 6y ago
How much of that usage and market cap is actual usage and how much is financial speculation?
- loceng 6y ago
  There's been research done to show that multiple times just a few people manipulated the price of Bitcoin to its heights - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-14/research-affiliates-quant-warns-of-bitcoin-market-manipulation https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-14/research-... - and the Bitcoin community main mantra is "HODL" and they call themselves the "army of the HODLers" for a reason: they're waiting for enough of society to be manipulated/trick people into thinking the history of the "steady" increase to "$100,000+" is because people many people are actually valuing it (which they're arguably not) - using that as a proof point to decide to buy; which has been done by 1) misappropriating Bitcoin as being akin to a stock in the stock market, especially the term ICO - "Initial Coin Offering" vs. Public Offering, and 2) misappropriating the term currency calling them "cryptocurrencies" - in an attempt to additionally legitimize it. I believe Bitcoin likely started to exponentially take off when the online marketing forums started rallying to put their efforts behind promoting it. Eventually then the VC-finance industrial complex joined in - and mainstream media then has been promoting it as if Bitcoin et al are stocks and a new currency. All the while the army of HODLers is growing - all incentivized to promote Bitcoin et al, and those who speak of a counter-narrative aren't financially incentivize to do so, and actually should fear doing so due to the mob; a partner at a top, international investment firm, Ray Dalio at Blackwater recently said as much - "while those who are against it (which are a few scared souls cowering in a corner)" - in his article "What I Think Of Bitcoin" - https://www.bridgewater.com/research-and-insights/ray-dalio-what-i-think-of-bitcoin https://www.bridgewater.com/research-and-insights/ray-dalio-... The VC-financially industrial complex with billions have started to jump into the speculation game, the MLM, and with their billions I believe have stared to attempt to invest just enough to offset crashes in price - along with the "army of HODLers" learning to be more obedient and listening to their war mantra of HODL, along with Coinbase likely purposefully engaging in price manipulation by multiple times making their platform unaccessible to users - so those who would impulse sell when the price starts to skyrocket are blocked long enough for them to instead hold; I'm guessing Coinbase also have a certain amount of large buy orders from large institutional investors that they manage, and they use these funds in part to counter a crash from happening. This same price manipulation happens in the stock market - https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/lg0ial/jim_cramer_explains_how_he_manipulated_the_market/ https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/lg0ial/jim_cramer_e... I also believe Tesla's recent acquisition of Bitcoin was to seem aligned with the growing mob of HODLers - who you don't want to be maligned with if you want them to speak positively about your product and buy your product, or in reality be less critical of you and your company because you're then financially aligned; Elon Musk recently tweeted "Bitcoin is almost as bs as fiat money" - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1340588909974200321 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1340588909974200321 Unfortunately the world may go mad, greed taking over, regulatory capture occurring where a generally small amount of people could lead to trying to engage most of society in helping realize whatever value Bitcoin et al reaches - unreasonably and unnecessarily transferring wealth from later adopters to earlier adopters. It could be the next war to be fought after tyranny is solved - Bitcoin in fact making tyranny easier as you can't implement policy like the Magnitsky Act; it's always a non-response when asking a pro-Bitcoiner to address this question/problem. I believe an organization needs to be started and funded somehow to put a concerted effort to organize and educate people by creating, compiling, everything necessary - and making whatever easy to understand educational material to go along with it - and to be promoted, along with as a resource for people to reference when they're in discussion with others.
Tomte 6y ago
> all the breakthroughs in cryptography like Zero Knowledge proofs, […] that emerged from the evolution of cryptocurrency tech. Zero knowledge proofs date back to the mid-eighties.
hahahahe 6y ago
Yeah they sure have. Running GPUs endlessly to execute thousands of transactions per day. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? You can literally run a pub-sub equivalent of BTC for 1/1,000,000,000 of the cost involved in crypto and a million times more performant while preserving all the benefits touted in cryptos. The reason why we don’t have this isn’t because we can’t. It’s because the financial institutions are too entrenched. And the same institutions have taken over the cryptocurrency space. Do you not see what’s happening?
- selestify 6y ago
  > You can literally run a pub-sub equivalent of BTC for 1/1,000,000,000 of the cost involved in crypto and a million times more performant while preserving all the benefits touted in cryptos Explain how pubsub is impervious to the operator of the pubsub shutting down, due to governmental pressure or otherwise.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

floo 6y ago

Bitcoin has all of the problems listed in the article and is, arguably, not yet providing the social value that blockchain could. Not sure how a high market cap is a counter argument to that.

genericacct 6y ago
Especially considering market cap is a totally made up number and if everybody tried to get out at once they would get a fraction of a fraction of it. (1) But it's pointless to tell this to a cryptofreak because they're so heavily invested in it they make zealots look reasonable. (1) not to mention the fact that as soon as there is volatility exchange sites go down, even the bigger ones.
- RurouniK 6y ago
  Wait until you find out what happens when people try to take out their money all at once from banks... I remember back in the day when people used to call early internet users internetfreaks and zealots. Now it's the same with Bitcoin. Whatever...
  - janoc 6y ago
    Yes, we all remember well what happened e.g. with Mt Gox. Not sure what your point here is - as if panic and runs on the banks were somehow magically prevented by crypto.
    - AngrySkillzz 6y ago
      And the hilarious part is, we actually have regulations like capital requirements and FDIC insurance and central bank lenders-of-last-resort to prevent bank runs? Whereas crypto has... none of that? And unaudited Tether pumping >$1B into the crypto ecosystem every week
- seibelj 6y ago
  If everyone tried to get out of any asset at once the price would tank. That’s how markets work.
RurouniK 6y ago
The market cap is a counter argument because it shows the trust people, and lately corporations put into Bitcoin as a store of wealth and a hedge against inflation. The market cap proves that bitcoin/blockchain/cryptocurrency enthusiasts put their money where their mouth is.
- bildung 6y ago
  I hardly doubt you'll find any enconomist working in those corporations fearing inflation. Inflation has been a non-issue since the 1980s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Consumer_Price_Index#/media/File:US_Consumer_Price_Index_Graph.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Consumer_Price_I...
  - andreaorru 6y ago
    And yet... https://wtfhappenedin1971.com https://wtfhappenedin1971.com
    - bildung 6y ago
      That page reminds me a bit of time cube :) Here is a good introductory article about the topic: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/02/25/wage-stagnation-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/02/25/wage-stagnation-much-m... TL;DR: Inflation plays at most a secondary role, the majority of the effect is a result of stagnant real wages, i.e. the capital owners kept a larger share of the productivity gains.
      - andreaorru 6y ago
        Thanks, that looks amazing. It's gonna take me a while to digest it though. :) Does the article conclude that the correlation with the US going off the gold standard, and consequent change in monetary policy, is completely spurious?
        bildung 6y ago

rullelito 6y ago

Maybe you should try to read the linked page.

gjulianm 6y ago

How much of that usage and market cap is actual usage and how much is financial speculation?

loceng 6y ago
There's been research done to show that multiple times just a few people manipulated the price of Bitcoin to its heights - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-14/research-affiliates-quant-warns-of-bitcoin-market-manipulation https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-14/research-... - and the Bitcoin community main mantra is "HODL" and they call themselves the "army of the HODLers" for a reason: they're waiting for enough of society to be manipulated/trick people into thinking the history of the "steady" increase to "$100,000+" is because people many people are actually valuing it (which they're arguably not) - using that as a proof point to decide to buy; which has been done by 1) misappropriating Bitcoin as being akin to a stock in the stock market, especially the term ICO - "Initial Coin Offering" vs. Public Offering, and 2) misappropriating the term currency calling them "cryptocurrencies" - in an attempt to additionally legitimize it. I believe Bitcoin likely started to exponentially take off when the online marketing forums started rallying to put their efforts behind promoting it. Eventually then the VC-finance industrial complex joined in - and mainstream media then has been promoting it as if Bitcoin et al are stocks and a new currency. All the while the army of HODLers is growing - all incentivized to promote Bitcoin et al, and those who speak of a counter-narrative aren't financially incentivize to do so, and actually should fear doing so due to the mob; a partner at a top, international investment firm, Ray Dalio at Blackwater recently said as much - "while those who are against it (which are a few scared souls cowering in a corner)" - in his article "What I Think Of Bitcoin" - https://www.bridgewater.com/research-and-insights/ray-dalio-what-i-think-of-bitcoin https://www.bridgewater.com/research-and-insights/ray-dalio-... The VC-financially industrial complex with billions have started to jump into the speculation game, the MLM, and with their billions I believe have stared to attempt to invest just enough to offset crashes in price - along with the "army of HODLers" learning to be more obedient and listening to their war mantra of HODL, along with Coinbase likely purposefully engaging in price manipulation by multiple times making their platform unaccessible to users - so those who would impulse sell when the price starts to skyrocket are blocked long enough for them to instead hold; I'm guessing Coinbase also have a certain amount of large buy orders from large institutional investors that they manage, and they use these funds in part to counter a crash from happening. This same price manipulation happens in the stock market - https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/lg0ial/jim_cramer_explains_how_he_manipulated_the_market/ https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/lg0ial/jim_cramer_e... I also believe Tesla's recent acquisition of Bitcoin was to seem aligned with the growing mob of HODLers - who you don't want to be maligned with if you want them to speak positively about your product and buy your product, or in reality be less critical of you and your company because you're then financially aligned; Elon Musk recently tweeted "Bitcoin is almost as bs as fiat money" - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1340588909974200321 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1340588909974200321 Unfortunately the world may go mad, greed taking over, regulatory capture occurring where a generally small amount of people could lead to trying to engage most of society in helping realize whatever value Bitcoin et al reaches - unreasonably and unnecessarily transferring wealth from later adopters to earlier adopters. It could be the next war to be fought after tyranny is solved - Bitcoin in fact making tyranny easier as you can't implement policy like the Magnitsky Act; it's always a non-response when asking a pro-Bitcoiner to address this question/problem. I believe an organization needs to be started and funded somehow to put a concerted effort to organize and educate people by creating, compiling, everything necessary - and making whatever easy to understand educational material to go along with it - and to be promoted, along with as a resource for people to reference when they're in discussion with others.

Tomte 6y ago

> all the breakthroughs in cryptography like Zero Knowledge proofs, […] that emerged from the evolution of cryptocurrency tech. Zero knowledge proofs date back to the mid-eighties.

hahahahe 6y ago

Yeah they sure have. Running GPUs endlessly to execute thousands of transactions per day. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? You can literally run a pub-sub equivalent of BTC for 1/1,000,000,000 of the cost involved in crypto and a million times more performant while preserving all the benefits touted in cryptos. The reason why we don’t have this isn’t because we can’t. It’s because the financial institutions are too entrenched. And the same institutions have taken over the cryptocurrency space. Do you not see what’s happening?

selestify 6y ago
> You can literally run a pub-sub equivalent of BTC for 1/1,000,000,000 of the cost involved in crypto and a million times more performant while preserving all the benefits touted in cryptos Explain how pubsub is impervious to the operator of the pubsub shutting down, due to governmental pressure or otherwise.