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> nobody's ever asked me to denounce my friends for believing bad things Probably because you aren't in a position of social influence, and/or your friends are

> nobody's ever asked me to denounce my friends for believing bad things Probably because you aren't in a position of social influence, and/or your friends aren't propagating dangerous ideas? That's all the more reason to skewer those that do and are, precisely because of the platforming effects they have.

depressedpanda 6y ago
What dangerous ideas would you say Scott Alexander has propagated?
- erichocean 6y ago
  > What dangerous ideas would you say Scott Alexander has propagated? The idea that the "Gray Tribe" is anything but a well-written propaganda effort targeting midwits to keep them supporting the Blue Tribe (and most importantly, to keep the Blue Tribe in power) as the problems mount and the failures become harder and harder to excuse.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Again, you're assuming a lot of cultural context here that isn't universally shared. I truly, honestly don't know what people mean when they say "dangerous ideas". My intuitive interpretation is "ideas which tell people to go be violent", but the term is very frequently used to refer to ideas which don't call for violence, so that can't be right.
- erichocean 6y ago
  "Dangerous ideas" are ideas that are a threat to power; they don't need to be violent per se.
closeparen 6y ago
SSC and the space around it fundamentally disagrees with you that the thing to do about dangerous ideas is block their propagation. It wants to know about them, understand them, turn them inside out, figure out why people believe them, understand what it’s like in their heads, and learn how not to make similar errors. “Listen to your culture’s leaders and tastemakers, vigorously punish any heretics” is a terrible algorithm for that. It’s exactly why so many bad ideas have such power for so long. Part of the idea of presenting bad ideas in such a sympathetic light is to then whack the reader with, “Do you realize what you were just nodding at?” To show that you too are capable of believing terrible things under the right circumstances, to encourage humility and skepticism.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  > SSC and the space around it fundamentally disagrees with you that the thing to do about dangerous ideas is block their propagation. I mean, they tried that approach with Roko's Basilisk... Let's just say it didn't work very well.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > I mean, they tried that approach with Roko's Basilisk... Let's just say it didn't work very well. Roko's Basilisk is just Pascal's Wager restated for AI. It falls to the same counterarguments, e.g. what if a superintelligent AI already exists somewhere in the universe and currently doesn't care about you but deigns to punish you for any attempt to create a competitor?
lliamander 6y ago
Dangerous ideas? Whose clutching pearls now?
ameister14 6y ago
So not being in a position of social influence and having no friends that propagate dangerous ideas...is a reason to skewer people that do? I find that idea pretty gross, to be honest with you. Also, who says what ideas are dangerous? This is a ridiculously pro status-quo stance to take.
horns4lyfe 6y ago
This whole "dangerous ideas" concept is ridiculous. The obvious connotation is that the peons can't be trusted with these ideas, so the intelligentsia needs to shield us from them; I find this to be more abhorrent than most bad ideas.

depressedpanda 6y ago

What dangerous ideas would you say Scott Alexander has propagated?

erichocean 6y ago
> What dangerous ideas would you say Scott Alexander has propagated? The idea that the "Gray Tribe" is anything but a well-written propaganda effort targeting midwits to keep them supporting the Blue Tribe (and most importantly, to keep the Blue Tribe in power) as the problems mount and the failures become harder and harder to excuse.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

Again, you're assuming a lot of cultural context here that isn't universally shared. I truly, honestly don't know what people mean when they say "dangerous ideas". My intuitive interpretation is "ideas which tell people to go be violent", but the term is very frequently used to refer to ideas which don't call for violence, so that can't be right.

erichocean 6y ago
"Dangerous ideas" are ideas that are a threat to power; they don't need to be violent per se.

closeparen 6y ago

SSC and the space around it fundamentally disagrees with you that the thing to do about dangerous ideas is block their propagation. It wants to know about them, understand them, turn them inside out, figure out why people believe them, understand what it’s like in their heads, and learn how not to make similar errors. “Listen to your culture’s leaders and tastemakers, vigorously punish any heretics” is a terrible algorithm for that. It’s exactly why so many bad ideas have such power for so long. Part of the idea of presenting bad ideas in such a sympathetic light is to then whack the reader with, “Do you realize what you were just nodding at?” To show that you too are capable of believing terrible things under the right circumstances, to encourage humility and skepticism.

zozbot234 6y ago
> SSC and the space around it fundamentally disagrees with you that the thing to do about dangerous ideas is block their propagation. I mean, they tried that approach with Roko's Basilisk... Let's just say it didn't work very well.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  > I mean, they tried that approach with Roko's Basilisk... Let's just say it didn't work very well. Roko's Basilisk is just Pascal's Wager restated for AI. It falls to the same counterarguments, e.g. what if a superintelligent AI already exists somewhere in the universe and currently doesn't care about you but deigns to punish you for any attempt to create a competitor?

lliamander 6y ago

Dangerous ideas? Whose clutching pearls now?

ameister14 6y ago

So not being in a position of social influence and having no friends that propagate dangerous ideas...is a reason to skewer people that do? I find that idea pretty gross, to be honest with you. Also, who says what ideas are dangerous? This is a ridiculously pro status-quo stance to take.

horns4lyfe 6y ago

This whole "dangerous ideas" concept is ridiculous. The obvious connotation is that the peons can't be trusted with these ideas, so the intelligentsia needs to shield us from them; I find this to be more abhorrent than most bad ideas.