9 ms·

I'm super confused as to why anybody thinks this is a problem. Generally, when one "buys" something from a "marketplace" the vendor gets to know who the buyer

I'm super confused as to why anybody thinks this is a problem. Generally, when one "buys" something from a "marketplace" the vendor gets to know who the buyer is. That the vendor asks the buyer if there's anything else they'd want to buy is par for the course.

ryandrake 6y ago
What? When I buy something at a brick and mortar store, I don't expect the product's manufacturer to get my personal information. I don't even expect the store to get my personal information if I pay in cash. I don't want some "relationship" with a company just because I buy their product.
- soared 6y ago
  Well... they do get your personal information along with tens of other companies involved in any transaction. Crm, payment processors, anti-fraud, manufacturers, etc. When you buy a product you agree to whatever terms there are, you only get to write terms if you’re writing up a contract.
- jasonlotito 6y ago
  Sure, but you did notice that they had a mailing list and gave them your name and email address and a bit more information so they could get back to you. This thread explains it in more detail: https://twitter.com/dezren39/status/1359726235929223168 https://twitter.com/dezren39/status/1359726235929223168 Seems pretty simple. No real story, other than the OP not paying attention.
  - andrewzah 6y ago
    "Why won't it read?!" That southpark episode, while disturbing, amusingly is spot on.
- IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
  I don’t know why we need metaphors for situations that are this simple. But, in any case, the „Azure marketplace“, as its name implies, acts as a middleman connecting buyers and sellers. In brick-and-mortar terms, it’s closer to signing a cell phone contract with AT&T at an Apple Store.
- TameAntelope 6y ago
  Imagine... You buy a toaster, and someone from the toaster company comes to your house to try and sell you a microwave. "I see you like to warm foods, let's talk about some other ways our products can help you with that!" Wait, now I'm not confident that doesn't/didn't happen, geez...
- rchaud 6y ago
  > I don't want some "relationship" with a company just because I buy their product. You've never needed warranty support before? I'm not aware of ways in which that works without them knowing who you are, or where they should mail the repaired product back to.
  - CodesInChaos 6y ago
    But that's only necessary if and when I open a support case with them, not merely because I bought the product.
ojnabieoot 6y ago
If the email came over an Azure customer support system, or even to the corporate email used to sign up for the Azure account, then sure - I would personally find this very obnoxious and it being buried in the license agreement is suspicious, but not really that unethical. Crucially, this arrangement means Canonical could engage in marketing without MSFT sharing much personal data about Azure users. What's extremely unethical is contacting the person over LinkedIn. It's extremely aggressive and a huge violation of boundaries, and proves that Microsoft is sharing personal information (names of users) with Canonical. If I buy something online from a store, I would expect a few spam emails. But it would be completely unacceptable if a sales representative showed up at my house (despite me only sharing my address for billing/shipping purposes). This is basically what happened to the Azure customer.
- jnwatson 6y ago
  LinkedIn? The also-Microsoft-owned service where you can pay to send DMs to users? I have no idea what you're talking about regarding "huge violation of boundaries", because there are none on LinkedIn. I get multiple DMs a week from folks I don't know selling something.
  - ojnabieoot 6y ago
    I don't even use Azure or LinkedIn. But I'm extremely not interested in continuing a conversation with someone who is being deliberately ignorant and difficult. If your attitude is "consumers are not allowed to complain about any shitty marketing practice if I don't like the company involved" then congratulations, you are sooooo superior.
    - nonotreally 6y ago
      I dunno man. I'm struggling to see how this is catching anyone by surprise. I'm not endorsing more ad spam, but I'm really caught off guard that using a service with a real name/email and getting added to a CRM is generating this level of indignation. Do none of you guys work in corporate? I get Linkedin/email/phone spam all the time. This isn't new. The only interesting thing here is that the trigger and the response time were so short. Again, I'm not advocating for more of this or even saying I like it. I'm just saying "why are we all of a sudden upset about this?"
layoutIfNeeded 6y ago
>Generally, when one "buys" something from a "marketplace" the vendor gets to know who the buyer is. Ummm... no?
mint2 6y ago
I take issue with it, but I haven’t seen any other comment clearly state what I see the issue to be. The issue is the poster spun up the instance in the course of his job. Microsoft and canonical would be reasonable to share that job related info. But instead it appears that either they shared his personal info which would be unethical, or canonical takes the de-identified job info and then matches it with personal info. In most transactions between people acting as representatives of their business, it would be very creepy for one of the businesses to then get personal info on the representative of the other business like their social media accounts or home address, especially if they do it using secret/obfuscated manners rather than explicit asking.
- braveyellowtoad 6y ago
  Hm in the corporate world, looking up people on LinkedIn is pretty par for the course. As a consultant with a large consulting firm, I meet with lots of different people. Since I have LinkedIn premium I can see who is looking at me. I’d say easily half the people I meet look me up before the meeting, and I do the same. It’s just curiosity and trying to get some background. What would be weird is sending me a message through there before the meeting. If we are speaking using another channel (like work email accounts), stay on that channel. This is what has gone wrong in this case. No worries with sending a connection request after our meeting “nice to meet you today and looking forward to collaborating, cheers” As a side note it’s always funny when we are in the middle of a meeting and a notification pops up that they have looked at my profile. It’s like “hello... pay attention... I’m right here...”
burkaman 6y ago
Imagine you rented a car from Hertz on a work trip with a company card, and then Ford called your house.
- phendrenad2 6y ago
  Actually, if that happened, most people would be slightly annoyed, but not at the "wtf" level of this Tweet. Simply because it's a digital purchase, and it's "ye olde evil Microsoft", it's considered a "wtf" moment.
  - freeflight 6y ago
    The wtf level would probably depend on with what and how Ford contacted you. If their message went: "We saw you drove to XYZ using our model Y", addressed to a private contact line of yours, then that would also lead to quite a few "wtf?" along the lines of "What data is Hertz sharing with Ford?"
IshKebab 6y ago
If you download a free Android app the developers don't get your email address.

ryandrake 6y ago

What? When I buy something at a brick and mortar store, I don't expect the product's manufacturer to get my personal information. I don't even expect the store to get my personal information if I pay in cash. I don't want some "relationship" with a company just because I buy their product.

soared 6y ago
Well... they do get your personal information along with tens of other companies involved in any transaction. Crm, payment processors, anti-fraud, manufacturers, etc. When you buy a product you agree to whatever terms there are, you only get to write terms if you’re writing up a contract.
jasonlotito 6y ago
Sure, but you did notice that they had a mailing list and gave them your name and email address and a bit more information so they could get back to you. This thread explains it in more detail: https://twitter.com/dezren39/status/1359726235929223168 https://twitter.com/dezren39/status/1359726235929223168 Seems pretty simple. No real story, other than the OP not paying attention.
- andrewzah 6y ago
  "Why won't it read?!" That southpark episode, while disturbing, amusingly is spot on.
IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
I don’t know why we need metaphors for situations that are this simple. But, in any case, the „Azure marketplace“, as its name implies, acts as a middleman connecting buyers and sellers. In brick-and-mortar terms, it’s closer to signing a cell phone contract with AT&T at an Apple Store.
TameAntelope 6y ago
Imagine... You buy a toaster, and someone from the toaster company comes to your house to try and sell you a microwave. "I see you like to warm foods, let's talk about some other ways our products can help you with that!" Wait, now I'm not confident that doesn't/didn't happen, geez...
rchaud 6y ago
> I don't want some "relationship" with a company just because I buy their product. You've never needed warranty support before? I'm not aware of ways in which that works without them knowing who you are, or where they should mail the repaired product back to.
- CodesInChaos 6y ago
  But that's only necessary if and when I open a support case with them, not merely because I bought the product.

ojnabieoot 6y ago

If the email came over an Azure customer support system, or even to the corporate email used to sign up for the Azure account, then sure - I would personally find this very obnoxious and it being buried in the license agreement is suspicious, but not really that unethical. Crucially, this arrangement means Canonical could engage in marketing without MSFT sharing much personal data about Azure users. What's extremely unethical is contacting the person over LinkedIn. It's extremely aggressive and a huge violation of boundaries, and proves that Microsoft is sharing personal information (names of users) with Canonical. If I buy something online from a store, I would expect a few spam emails. But it would be completely unacceptable if a sales representative showed up at my house (despite me only sharing my address for billing/shipping purposes). This is basically what happened to the Azure customer.

jnwatson 6y ago
LinkedIn? The also-Microsoft-owned service where you can pay to send DMs to users? I have no idea what you're talking about regarding "huge violation of boundaries", because there are none on LinkedIn. I get multiple DMs a week from folks I don't know selling something.
- ojnabieoot 6y ago
  I don't even use Azure or LinkedIn. But I'm extremely not interested in continuing a conversation with someone who is being deliberately ignorant and difficult. If your attitude is "consumers are not allowed to complain about any shitty marketing practice if I don't like the company involved" then congratulations, you are sooooo superior.
  - nonotreally 6y ago
    I dunno man. I'm struggling to see how this is catching anyone by surprise. I'm not endorsing more ad spam, but I'm really caught off guard that using a service with a real name/email and getting added to a CRM is generating this level of indignation. Do none of you guys work in corporate? I get Linkedin/email/phone spam all the time. This isn't new. The only interesting thing here is that the trigger and the response time were so short. Again, I'm not advocating for more of this or even saying I like it. I'm just saying "why are we all of a sudden upset about this?"

layoutIfNeeded 6y ago

>Generally, when one "buys" something from a "marketplace" the vendor gets to know who the buyer is. Ummm... no?

mint2 6y ago

I take issue with it, but I haven’t seen any other comment clearly state what I see the issue to be. The issue is the poster spun up the instance in the course of his job. Microsoft and canonical would be reasonable to share that job related info. But instead it appears that either they shared his personal info which would be unethical, or canonical takes the de-identified job info and then matches it with personal info. In most transactions between people acting as representatives of their business, it would be very creepy for one of the businesses to then get personal info on the representative of the other business like their social media accounts or home address, especially if they do it using secret/obfuscated manners rather than explicit asking.

braveyellowtoad 6y ago
Hm in the corporate world, looking up people on LinkedIn is pretty par for the course. As a consultant with a large consulting firm, I meet with lots of different people. Since I have LinkedIn premium I can see who is looking at me. I’d say easily half the people I meet look me up before the meeting, and I do the same. It’s just curiosity and trying to get some background. What would be weird is sending me a message through there before the meeting. If we are speaking using another channel (like work email accounts), stay on that channel. This is what has gone wrong in this case. No worries with sending a connection request after our meeting “nice to meet you today and looking forward to collaborating, cheers” As a side note it’s always funny when we are in the middle of a meeting and a notification pops up that they have looked at my profile. It’s like “hello... pay attention... I’m right here...”

burkaman 6y ago

Imagine you rented a car from Hertz on a work trip with a company card, and then Ford called your house.

phendrenad2 6y ago
Actually, if that happened, most people would be slightly annoyed, but not at the "wtf" level of this Tweet. Simply because it's a digital purchase, and it's "ye olde evil Microsoft", it's considered a "wtf" moment.
- freeflight 6y ago
  The wtf level would probably depend on with what and how Ford contacted you. If their message went: "We saw you drove to XYZ using our model Y", addressed to a private contact line of yours, then that would also lead to quite a few "wtf?" along the lines of "What data is Hertz sharing with Ford?"

IshKebab 6y ago

If you download a free Android app the developers don't get your email address.