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Dutch people don't want to hear this but the Netherlands are a tax haven just like Ireland. Luxembourg and Switzerland aren't actually that attractive for tax a

• float4 6y ago
  Most Dutch left-wing voters have been acknowledging this for many years now. It's very often been publicly criticised in Dutch media as well. Google "Nederland belastingparadijs" and you'll find a lot of Dutch articles about it.
  • ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    Yeah, I guess it's not fair that the Dutch taxpayers and the small/medium sized companies there have to foot the bill for running the country while the trillion+ dollar Apples of the world pay next to nothing.
    • tw20212021 6y ago
      It's not. Actually the government will bend backwards just to keep the big companies in the country, while hunting down regular tax payers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_childcare_benefits_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_childcare_benefits_scand... . The tax laws here are ambiguous so that the tax man can judge to his liking whether you are friend or foe.
    • t0mas88 6y ago
      Except that being a tax haven is a net positive for the Netherlands. Without it Apple wouldn't be in Amsterdam, they would be in Dublin or Luxembourg. And without Apple paying their low percentage on a huge number in Amsterdam, the Dutch would have to pay more tax themselves.
      • ragebol 6y ago
        Is it really? I think eg. Apple paying their fair share of taxes would be morally right. If that requires me paying a bit more tax, fine by me.
        • t0mas88 6y ago
          Net positive in economical sense, sure ethically it's wrong that the Dutch are stealing tax money from other countries.
      • disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        Actually, they would have moved to Cork, Ireland 40 years ago. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/11/apples-cork-campus-celebrates-40-years-of-community-and-looks-to-the-future/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/11/apples-cork-campus-ce...
• ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Why don't they want to hear this? It's not really a secret, I'm pretty sure they know it. I'm not Dutch, but a near zero-tax policy (for the big players), with a stable low-corruption government, easy bureaucracy, EU and NATO member, a huge harbor, top infrastructure plus a highly skilled workforce and easy immigration policy is bound to attract every company out there.
  • meepmorp 6y ago
    Knowing something and wanting to acknowledge it are two entirely different things.
  • dep_b 6y ago
    Because for the plebs it's anything but a tax haven
  • throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    >Why don't they want to hear this? It's not really a secret, I'm pretty sure they know it. This is like the EU version of a Californian saying those dastardly Texans should be ashamed of their low taxes when BigCo announces they're moving to Texas. It's a backhanded way of implying that it's not a good thing or that they should be ashamed or whatever.
  • yulaow 6y ago
    Dutch economists in EU institutions typically ask for higher taxes and austerity for the rest of the eu nations while trying to not talk about the zero-tax policy they themselves apply to corporation + laws that help in tax avoidance for corps with legal hq there.
    • IkmoIkmo 6y ago
      > the zero-tax policy they themselves apply to corporation + laws that help in tax avoidance for corps with legal hq there. There's no such zero-tax policy. There simply is the liquidatieverliesregeling, which allows you to subtract not-yet-subtracted losses from investments overseas from the profits in the HQ. Shell is the common example. It has an HQ in the Netherlands, and many overseas investments. e.g. hundreds of places where it drills for oil in many different jurisdictions. Suppose 9 of these of these do not find profitable oil and thus make a loss of $10 each, and 1 of these does find oil and makes a profit of $100. The total profit for Shell is $100-90 = $10. Corporate taxes only tax profits, that's true around the world. However, because the 10 Shell entities are drilling for oil in 10 different jurisdictions, the one profitable company cannot deduct losses from other jurisdictions from its profits. Therefore the $100 is taxed at say 20%, so the income is $80. And the losses are still $90. So overal, worldwide Shell just made a $10 loss due to taxes, despite making a profit. The Netherlands' tax regime simply states that if you have an HQ, you can deduct all those losses which you haven't been able to deduct before, from the profits of the HQ. That's in principle a fair form of taxation. Second, it doesn't benefit the Netherlands tax-wise, because it reduces the tax income in the Netherlands, while profits overseas are still taxed overseas and generate income for those local jurisdictions. This idea that therefore the Netherlands has a zero-tax policy that's screwing other countries is nonsense. There are many other examples and discussions you can have about Dutch taxes creating issues overseas (the Netherlands is certainly not perfect), but the tax regime for corps with a legal HQ in the Netherlands isn't one of them.
• gerdesj 6y ago
  The UK has only just Brexited. There's a fair chance that tax rates will be looked at. Bear in mind that there's now an economy roughly the same size as France parked up off the coast of mainland Europe which has just had the safety catch taken off. I wonder if the "Double Dutch Irish sandwich" or whatever it's called will get a British tinge soon enough. I voted Remain FWIW. That seems an awfully long time ago.
  • nly 6y ago
    If Britain attempts this, the deal struck on goods with the EU will be unilaterally pulled. Any hope for agreement on financial services will always vaporise
  • TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    Taking off the safety while you're pointing the gun at your own head is not the best idea ever. Tax evasion/avoidance was indeed one of the primary motivations for Brexit. But that only works when you have a stable financial system - and haven't just destroyed a significant part of your balance of payments by crippling both exporters and service providers. And then the governor of the BoE tells everyone to consider negative interest rates - which is a superb way to persuade speculators to sell the pound and make imports even more expensive. It'a almost as if they're deliberately trying to crash the currency.
    • SuoDuanDao 6y ago
      I suspect a lot of places are trying to at least depress their currency. We're at a weird point in history where a lot of technological influences on the economy are deflationary, to the point that a lot of money printing is required just to keep the inflation rate somewhat steady. Add a desire to be competitive on wage costs against other nations and some of the measures being taken look rather aggressive.
    • thu2111 6y ago
      Tax evasion/avoidance was indeed one of the primary motivations for Brexit No it wasn't, it was barely mentioned. A few libertarian Tories would have liked to lower tax rates but: 1. Countries having different tax rates is not "tax evasion" or "avoidance". By any definition that's clearly propaganda. 2. Lockdowns put paid to that idea. 3. The idea of turning Britain into Singapore never gained much traction within the wider Conservative party.
• KorematsuFred 6y ago
  Why they don't want to hear this ? Isn't it something the Dutch people should be very proud of ?
  • ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    I guess, if you're a citizen and a taxpayer there trying to make a living and you see your government letting the big corps pay nothing in taxes but you gotta pay your taxes to keep the lights on in the country then it's a tough pill to swallow.
  • ragebol 6y ago
    Am Dutch, not proud of this at all. We just had our cabinet fall over a huge scandal in which the tax authority incorrectly reclaimed thousands of euro's from quite vulnerable people and ruined lives. But also wanted to cut dividend tax for ~<billion euro/year. Worst thing is, the same parties that are responsible for this mess are likely to be reelected.
    • t0mas88 6y ago
      The reclaiming thing is terrible, but let's not get the populist (election year) comments on dividend tax into the same discussion. By all objective means the Netherlands is one of the top tax havens of Europe, and it's bringing in lots and lots of money. Charging 1% effective tax on Apple, Starbucks etc is really great for the Netherlands and reduces the amount of tax paid by citizens. Somehow half the general public cheers for the left opposition parties that want to remove these tax breaks because "it's not fair Apple is paying so little". But anyone with any economical sense understands that removing these tax breaks means Apple (and the rest) will leave Amsterdam. They have no significant operations there, just a postbox for the low taxes. The end result is that Dutch citizens will have to pay more tax. The government knows this very well, but they can't publicly be very vocal about it because being a tax haven isn't very friendly to other countries that are missing out on taxes because of it. So long story short: If you're Dutch stop complaining, you're saving tax. If you're any other European: you have every right to point out the Netherlands as a tax haven.
• nerfhammer 6y ago
  That's why they call the big tax avoidance move "Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich"
  • disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    That hasn't been open to new applicants since 2015, and is completely gone as off last year (on the Irish side, at least).
• Marciplan 6y ago
  We are aware and there is growing criticism on it, but not nearly enough to see it actioned on :(
• speleding 6y ago
  The Netherlands is quite aware that we are considered a tax haven, it's in the news all the time. What most other countries don't like to hear is that multinationals consider them a tax have not for the low corporate tax rate (it's not the lowest in the EU), but because the tax authority provides a much better service. In particular, companies can get so called "tax rulings" that allow them to predict exactly how much their tax bill will be, as long as their revenue, depreciations, etc, stay within an agreed upon range. In many other countries it can take over a year to get a final total on your tax return. This causes headaches for multinationals who need to keep a reserve somewhere to account for the worst possible outcome of that tax bill. I would say that attracting multinationals with better service is fair game.