12 ms·

Honest question, how is lobbying different from bribery? Lobbyists go to Washington, spend fortunes on taking lawmakers to fancy dinners and then get away with

by qnk 6y ago

Honest question, how is lobbying different from bribery? Lobbyists go to Washington, spend fortunes on taking lawmakers to fancy dinners and then get away with what they want. Maybe I don't understand the process and am oversimplifying it, but that's how I see it.

grayhatter 6y ago
That stuff is all just part of the game. The real issue with lobbyists is they appear to subject matter experts to the politicians. politicians who are not subject matter experts at almost anything generally find themselves believing what lobbyists say. The fact that they're whined and dined and made their time getting lectured enjoyable isn't really the problem so much as they are only getting half truths. The article has a perfect example where politicians say that it won't tie the hands of the IRS I'm sure they honestly believe that. The problem is that real subject matter experts tax lawyers say it will. but it doesn't matter The politicians have already believed something different. and it's much easier to con a man than convince he's been conned.
Someone1234 6y ago
Fancy dinners, but also political donations. It is surprising how little money it takes to sway a politician in terms of donations.
deeeeplearning 6y ago
> how is lobbying different from bribery? Oh, that's easy. Lobbying is legal, bribery isn't.
- WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
  You seem to be mistaken. In the US, trading law for campaign cash is very legal.
  - deeeeplearning 6y ago
    Yes, it's called Lobbying. That was the point of my comment.
jjcon 6y ago
People only hear about lobbying in a bad light but the truth is they are vitally essential - not all lobbying is back room dealing - the vast majority of it is basically advising. When you call your senator you would be lobbying on behalf of a cause. If the government wanted to put a back door in encryption, who is it that tells them why that’s a bad idea? Quite often, lobbyists (in this case on Behalf of companies whose security would be compromised). Industries organize lobbyists to advocate for themselves because politicians can’t possibly understand all the ramifications of the laws they pass. There are definitely issues with organized lobbying but the alternatives are lacking.
alistairSH 6y ago
I'll flip the question around... How is lobbying different than random voter talking to their representative in person? It isn't really - a lobbyist is just exercising the free speech available to all individuals - they just happen to be doing it on behalf of a group of individuals. I'm purposefully ignoring the whole "corporations are people" aspect because that's a different discussion. But, what you seem to be arguing is that I cannot gather with my neighbors, select a person from the group, and send them to DC to talk to our Congressperson about whatever topic interests us. Instead, we all have to go individually? Edit - I actually do find the current lobbying situation to be problematic, but it mostly relates to campaign donations. It's not as simple as lobbying (by itself) is bad.
- s_dev 6y ago
  Money. Receiving money is the fundamental difference between lobbying and discussing policy with constituents.
  - matwood 6y ago
    Not really - constituents donate money.
    - jmholla 6y ago
      Your average constituent can't and doesn't wine and dine their representatives.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        Your average constituent may be part of a union or professional body or other organisation that does this on their behalf though.
    - adkadskhj 6y ago
      How often has a single (non-rich) constituents money been the cause of policy change? This is comparing a gun to a nuke. Yes, you could kill just as many people with a gun, but the nuke is hyper efficient at the job. They're not the same. Lobbyists may be akin to a policy nuke. They have an arsenal of tools from influence, to money, to unethical and sometimes illegal behavior. Their positions have become so effective that it drowns out most others. edit: Another way to think about it is that Lobbyists have changed, i think, from the voice of a group of people to a voice instead of a group of people. Leaving many people voiceless in the face of insane capital and influence.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ddingus 6y ago
In many parts of the world, it is bribery. The US is currently permissive. Legalized corruption.

by qnk 6y ago

grayhatter 6y ago

That stuff is all just part of the game. The real issue with lobbyists is they appear to subject matter experts to the politicians. politicians who are not subject matter experts at almost anything generally find themselves believing what lobbyists say. The fact that they're whined and dined and made their time getting lectured enjoyable isn't really the problem so much as they are only getting half truths. The article has a perfect example where politicians say that it won't tie the hands of the IRS I'm sure they honestly believe that. The problem is that real subject matter experts tax lawyers say it will. but it doesn't matter The politicians have already believed something different. and it's much easier to con a man than convince he's been conned.

Someone1234 6y ago

Fancy dinners, but also political donations. It is surprising how little money it takes to sway a politician in terms of donations.

deeeeplearning 6y ago

> how is lobbying different from bribery? Oh, that's easy. Lobbying is legal, bribery isn't.

WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
You seem to be mistaken. In the US, trading law for campaign cash is very legal.
- deeeeplearning 6y ago
  Yes, it's called Lobbying. That was the point of my comment.

jjcon 6y ago

People only hear about lobbying in a bad light but the truth is they are vitally essential - not all lobbying is back room dealing - the vast majority of it is basically advising. When you call your senator you would be lobbying on behalf of a cause. If the government wanted to put a back door in encryption, who is it that tells them why that’s a bad idea? Quite often, lobbyists (in this case on Behalf of companies whose security would be compromised). Industries organize lobbyists to advocate for themselves because politicians can’t possibly understand all the ramifications of the laws they pass. There are definitely issues with organized lobbying but the alternatives are lacking.

alistairSH 6y ago

I'll flip the question around... How is lobbying different than random voter talking to their representative in person? It isn't really - a lobbyist is just exercising the free speech available to all individuals - they just happen to be doing it on behalf of a group of individuals. I'm purposefully ignoring the whole "corporations are people" aspect because that's a different discussion. But, what you seem to be arguing is that I cannot gather with my neighbors, select a person from the group, and send them to DC to talk to our Congressperson about whatever topic interests us. Instead, we all have to go individually? Edit - I actually do find the current lobbying situation to be problematic, but it mostly relates to campaign donations. It's not as simple as lobbying (by itself) is bad.

s_dev 6y ago
Money. Receiving money is the fundamental difference between lobbying and discussing policy with constituents.
- matwood 6y ago
  Not really - constituents donate money.
  - jmholla 6y ago
    Your average constituent can't and doesn't wine and dine their representatives.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      Your average constituent may be part of a union or professional body or other organisation that does this on their behalf though.
  - adkadskhj 6y ago
    How often has a single (non-rich) constituents money been the cause of policy change? This is comparing a gun to a nuke. Yes, you could kill just as many people with a gun, but the nuke is hyper efficient at the job. They're not the same. Lobbyists may be akin to a policy nuke. They have an arsenal of tools from influence, to money, to unethical and sometimes illegal behavior. Their positions have become so effective that it drowns out most others. edit: Another way to think about it is that Lobbyists have changed, i think, from the voice of a group of people to a voice instead of a group of people. Leaving many people voiceless in the face of insane capital and influence.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ddingus 6y ago

In many parts of the world, it is bribery. The US is currently permissive. Legalized corruption.