7 ms·

They put those keys on other layers. Like on many keyboards, you have a Fn key which activates a layer that makes the F8 key a play/pause button or w/e. Just pu

They put those keys on other layers. Like on many keyboards, you have a Fn key which activates a layer that makes the F8 key a play/pause button or w/e. Just put the less used but still necessary keys on another layer. Or configure certain keys to do something different with a double or triple tap. Double tap lshift = [ Double tap rshift = ], etc. They are highly configurable.

est31 6y ago
Moving your hand to the key is faster than pressing a key combo needed for it or double tapping. At least for me it is.
- uberduper 6y ago
  Moving your hand is also more likely to result in a repetitive stress injury.
  - germ 6y ago
    Heavy keys as well, and harsh bottom-out. There's a ton of rethinking what a keyboard is that is going on in the ergo space right now as to what a keyboard _should_ be and how they should function. From physical layouts, curvature, keymaps, layering and combos it's interesting to see the experimentation going on. These devices are going to be used for the rest of our lives, they should at least be non-harmful over time. Right now I'm using a GergoPlex, but my holy grail is a QMK'd DataHand. (And if you know who has one, please send them my way)
    - RBerenguel 6y ago
      You have already designed many keyboards, go on with a GergoHand! (happy Gergo, not Plex, user here)
      - germ 6y ago
        I wish it was that easy! There's so many mechanical parts to consider and CAD is not my strong suit. That being said, if someone wants to miniturise the LalBoard and rework it, I could design a PCB/firmware :)
        RBerenguel 6y ago
        It was more of an "I dare you", not that it is that easy at all. To be fair, I don't think I'd find it more comfortable than a normal split keyboard
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - keybored 6y ago
    Please substantiate that. From what I’ve heard these things can lead to injury: 1. Repeatedly/repetitively using small/weak/fine-motor muscles 2. Contorting your hands (like holding multiple modifirs with the same hand and also pressing whatever non-modifier) Moving your whole hand from the venerable home row to for example the nav cluster doesn’t fall under any of the above, since you can move your arm with your shoulder. I have never had problems with using larger muscles like my shoulders all day for simple, non-strenuous tasks, and I haven’t heard of people who have reported problems with it yet. I have however heard of people who have gotten in trouble because they repeatedly do tiny motions with their fingers or hands. Which is tempting since it can feel easier to use those muscles for precise control -- I certainly pen-write with my wrist too much when I should be using my shoulder more -- but can easily lead to fatigue or worse. I have had more problems with Emacs’ modifier-heavy default keybindings than I’ve ever had with modifier-less peasant software like word processors, ergonomics-wise. It isn’t a problem for me ergonomically to move to the arrow keys if I want to do a bunch of “meta” keys like move word right or left,[1] which is harder to do on som fn-keyboard where you both have to hold down the shift key and the fn key. I also am able to use the arrow keys from the somewhat overrated home row, but that is on a non-configurable keyboard (remapped in software). I would say that people have a minor point when they say that moving your hands wastes time. Kind of like me going for a five minute walk every so often wastes time compared to sitting at my desk for eight hours straight. Now I’m putting a fine point on it, but I actually think that even a little bit of gross movement like that can be more beneficial than hurtful. I’ve used a cheap 60% keyboard for a while and it was never really my thing (just got it for the n-key rollover): 1. You can’t reprogram the fn key on the keyboard (again if cheap) 2. You can’t reprogram the fn key in software since it is effectively “blessed” (your OS can’t see it) 3. Now you’re stuck with whatever fn layout that they made, which is often subpar (example: my 60% has some fn-whatever combos that turn off keys or lock them which just causes problems whenever I accidentally press them (always accidentally)) 4. Big Brand keyboards are customizable but their software is likely to be too limited, which means that you have to buy somewhat boutique keyboards in order to truly map the fn layer business the way you want 5. I already alluded to how multi-modifier keybindings can be a pain: a lot of software assume that you use a regular keyboard so they will throw keybindings like Ctrl+Shift+PageUp at you, which might translate to something unwieldy like Fn+Ctrl+Shift+P. That’s too much hassle. (Intellij is a real sinner in this regard.) I currently use a tenkeyless keyboard which gives me the only less-than-fullsize keyboard advantage that I care about: my mouse is closer. [1]: Yes, sometimes I use built-in/embedded editors or textfields (like Firefox’s address bar) that are not Vim or Emacs; No, I don’t want to configure every last software that I use that contain mini-editors to use some kind of Vim-like plugin so that I can e.g. move word-right with `w`.
  - robotmay 6y ago
    Curiously I find the opposite: home-row typing, or using wrist rests etc and keeping my hands static, cause me quite bad RSI. Instead I use a very "floating" style of typing where my hands move very freely over the keyboard, kinda like playing the piano.
    - elbows 6y ago
      I've always felt the same way. My fingers naturally want to spread out, so pulling them close enough together to rest on the home keys causes a lot of tension.
    - keybored 6y ago
      That makes sense to me. You get repetitive stress injury from repetitive overuse of small and weak muscles, not from using bigger muscles (like your shoulders) to move your hands/arms in non-strenuous ways.
- PlqnK 6y ago
  I use CAPSLOCK as my fn key, it's right under my pinky, no need to move my hand. On my second layer I have arrow keys set on hjkl so in programs that don't support vim key bindings I can use them without moving my hand from the home row. This is a more efficient way to use the arrow keys compared to a standard keyboard where you have to move your hand out of the home row.
- benhurmarcel 6y ago
  Not if you can activate the layer immediately with your thumb.

est31 6y ago

Moving your hand to the key is faster than pressing a key combo needed for it or double tapping. At least for me it is.

uberduper 6y ago
Moving your hand is also more likely to result in a repetitive stress injury.
- germ 6y ago
  Heavy keys as well, and harsh bottom-out. There's a ton of rethinking what a keyboard is that is going on in the ergo space right now as to what a keyboard _should_ be and how they should function. From physical layouts, curvature, keymaps, layering and combos it's interesting to see the experimentation going on. These devices are going to be used for the rest of our lives, they should at least be non-harmful over time. Right now I'm using a GergoPlex, but my holy grail is a QMK'd DataHand. (And if you know who has one, please send them my way)
  - RBerenguel 6y ago
    You have already designed many keyboards, go on with a GergoHand! (happy Gergo, not Plex, user here)
    - germ 6y ago
      I wish it was that easy! There's so many mechanical parts to consider and CAD is not my strong suit. That being said, if someone wants to miniturise the LalBoard and rework it, I could design a PCB/firmware :)
      - RBerenguel 6y ago
        It was more of an "I dare you", not that it is that easy at all. To be fair, I don't think I'd find it more comfortable than a normal split keyboard
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- keybored 6y ago
  Please substantiate that. From what I’ve heard these things can lead to injury: 1. Repeatedly/repetitively using small/weak/fine-motor muscles 2. Contorting your hands (like holding multiple modifirs with the same hand and also pressing whatever non-modifier) Moving your whole hand from the venerable home row to for example the nav cluster doesn’t fall under any of the above, since you can move your arm with your shoulder. I have never had problems with using larger muscles like my shoulders all day for simple, non-strenuous tasks, and I haven’t heard of people who have reported problems with it yet. I have however heard of people who have gotten in trouble because they repeatedly do tiny motions with their fingers or hands. Which is tempting since it can feel easier to use those muscles for precise control -- I certainly pen-write with my wrist too much when I should be using my shoulder more -- but can easily lead to fatigue or worse. I have had more problems with Emacs’ modifier-heavy default keybindings than I’ve ever had with modifier-less peasant software like word processors, ergonomics-wise. It isn’t a problem for me ergonomically to move to the arrow keys if I want to do a bunch of “meta” keys like move word right or left,[1] which is harder to do on som fn-keyboard where you both have to hold down the shift key and the fn key. I also am able to use the arrow keys from the somewhat overrated home row, but that is on a non-configurable keyboard (remapped in software). I would say that people have a minor point when they say that moving your hands wastes time. Kind of like me going for a five minute walk every so often wastes time compared to sitting at my desk for eight hours straight. Now I’m putting a fine point on it, but I actually think that even a little bit of gross movement like that can be more beneficial than hurtful. I’ve used a cheap 60% keyboard for a while and it was never really my thing (just got it for the n-key rollover): 1. You can’t reprogram the fn key on the keyboard (again if cheap) 2. You can’t reprogram the fn key in software since it is effectively “blessed” (your OS can’t see it) 3. Now you’re stuck with whatever fn layout that they made, which is often subpar (example: my 60% has some fn-whatever combos that turn off keys or lock them which just causes problems whenever I accidentally press them (always accidentally)) 4. Big Brand keyboards are customizable but their software is likely to be too limited, which means that you have to buy somewhat boutique keyboards in order to truly map the fn layer business the way you want 5. I already alluded to how multi-modifier keybindings can be a pain: a lot of software assume that you use a regular keyboard so they will throw keybindings like Ctrl+Shift+PageUp at you, which might translate to something unwieldy like Fn+Ctrl+Shift+P. That’s too much hassle. (Intellij is a real sinner in this regard.) I currently use a tenkeyless keyboard which gives me the only less-than-fullsize keyboard advantage that I care about: my mouse is closer. [1]: Yes, sometimes I use built-in/embedded editors or textfields (like Firefox’s address bar) that are not Vim or Emacs; No, I don’t want to configure every last software that I use that contain mini-editors to use some kind of Vim-like plugin so that I can e.g. move word-right with `w`.
- robotmay 6y ago
  Curiously I find the opposite: home-row typing, or using wrist rests etc and keeping my hands static, cause me quite bad RSI. Instead I use a very "floating" style of typing where my hands move very freely over the keyboard, kinda like playing the piano.
  - elbows 6y ago
    I've always felt the same way. My fingers naturally want to spread out, so pulling them close enough together to rest on the home keys causes a lot of tension.
  - keybored 6y ago
    That makes sense to me. You get repetitive stress injury from repetitive overuse of small and weak muscles, not from using bigger muscles (like your shoulders) to move your hands/arms in non-strenuous ways.
PlqnK 6y ago
I use CAPSLOCK as my fn key, it's right under my pinky, no need to move my hand. On my second layer I have arrow keys set on hjkl so in programs that don't support vim key bindings I can use them without moving my hand from the home row. This is a more efficient way to use the arrow keys compared to a standard keyboard where you have to move your hand out of the home row.
benhurmarcel 6y ago
Not if you can activate the layer immediately with your thumb.