5 ms·

doesnt samsung create thousands of jobs in the community with this? not sure I share your outrage. this isnt about some one trick pony YC startup hiring a dozen

by f430 6y ago

doesnt samsung create thousands of jobs in the community with this? not sure I share your outrage. this isnt about some one trick pony YC startup hiring a dozen backend devs

numbsafari 6y ago
Why should labor pay for all the externalities created by capital?
- f430 6y ago
  Did you not read the title? It's $17 billion dollar investment creating thousands of high paying jobs which in turn will create more jobs and create more capital in community. Why are you so against this? This isn't some VC backed zombie healthcare software company hiring a couple of developers per year and not getting to pay taxes. This is a major corporation investing billions with profound impact on the community.
  - bildung 6y ago
    > Why are you so against this? Why should the people of Austin, Texas gift millions of dollars to a company that made a profit of over $8 billions in the last quarter alone?
    - adriancr 6y ago
      I've seen places refuse to budge and lose out the investments I've also seen Intel refuse to negotiate price for chips with Apple for the original iPhone and look how great that turned out for them and TSMC
      - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
        Sometimes youve gotta show backbone. "I'be seen people refuse to give their boss a blowjob and lose out on promotions"
      - imtringued 6y ago
        The number of cities losing out does not change. If there are X competing cities X-1 cities will always lose out.
      - hardolaf 6y ago
        This is a company asking a city, that will see no income taxes from the at most 2,000 employees, permission to pay zero taxes at all to the city in exchange for the honor of housing a future EPA Super Fund site. Sure, the city will get some sales tax revenue from the 2,000 who will almost assuredly live outside of the city. So they'll get what, 6.25% of a $10 lunch from maybe 30% of workers per day? So they'll expect about $100k/yr in tax revenue in exchange for more road utilization and a future EPA Super Fund site. That doesn't seem like a good deal for the city. And that's assuming 100% of the sales tax goes to the city which it doesn't. Most of that goes to the county and state.
        adriancr 6y ago
        Why no income taxes on the employees?, they are part of the community, why arent they paying in? How does the city even fund itself then?
        _-david-_ 6y ago
        Texas does not have an income tax. Texas has property tax and sales tax.
  - numbsafari 6y ago
    Who said I’m against it? I merely raised the question. > This is a major corporation investing billions with profound impact on the community. Sure. Is that impact the same for everyone in the community, though? Or is it ultimately better for some, and not others? Could it also be that it may be a net negative for some members of the community? Also, as noted by others, Samsung already has strong incentives to build this facility in Texas, and has wanted/needed to build it for a while. This latest gambit is an effort to force local government to sweeten the deal.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    The investment is creating the jobs. The tax discount isn't creating jobs. It's just moving them around. Do you really think Samsung will give up if no city gives them a tax break?
    - f430 6y ago
      without investment there would be no jobs or taxes to collect in the first place. With this single move, texas gov will be able to collect more taxes from thousands of people making 100k+ and downstream suppliers also hiring and making more money. Samsung can easily find other cities to produce in at lower cost outside America. Why is being competitive for once such a big issue here? Without the tax benefit Texans won't have thousands of high paying high skill jobs. The tax break adds up to about $40 million a year which pales in comparison to the benefits Texans will receive.
      - mywittyname 6y ago
        > Samsung can easily find other cities to produce in at lower cost outside America. No they can't. Austin and the surrounding area are key silicon fabrication regions. There are very few places in the world that can compete, and it is possible that they are forced to produce within the USA due to import/export restrictions on what they are manufacturing. This is a situation where the decision is already made, but it can't hurt to ask for tax break. Because hey, free money. Kind of like how Amazon "passed" on building out an NYC headquarters because the city wouldn't give them tax breaks (after locals protested), only to come back six months later and begin construction of their NYC HQ.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - tooltalk 6y ago
      Sure, the tax thing is probably one of the maor component here. In addition to local taxes, my understanding that SAS's current plant is in free trade zone where they also receive exemption for import/sales taxes, etc. The whole US semi industry is worried that the lion share of semi production is stlil occuring in Asia, not in the US -- which is probably why Trump admin started twisting TSMC and Samsung's arms few years ago: https://www.semiconductors.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/2020-SIA-State-of-the-Industry-Report.pdf https://www.semiconductors.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/20...
- kristianp 6y ago
  It's an interesting question: incentives. Samsung can't negotiate away wages like they can land taxes.

by f430 6y ago

doesnt samsung create thousands of jobs in the community with this? not sure I share your outrage. this isnt about some one trick pony YC startup hiring a dozen backend devs

numbsafari 6y ago

Why should labor pay for all the externalities created by capital?

f430 6y ago
Did you not read the title? It's $17 billion dollar investment creating thousands of high paying jobs which in turn will create more jobs and create more capital in community. Why are you so against this? This isn't some VC backed zombie healthcare software company hiring a couple of developers per year and not getting to pay taxes. This is a major corporation investing billions with profound impact on the community.
- bildung 6y ago
  > Why are you so against this? Why should the people of Austin, Texas gift millions of dollars to a company that made a profit of over $8 billions in the last quarter alone?
  - adriancr 6y ago
    I've seen places refuse to budge and lose out the investments I've also seen Intel refuse to negotiate price for chips with Apple for the original iPhone and look how great that turned out for them and TSMC
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      Sometimes youve gotta show backbone. "I'be seen people refuse to give their boss a blowjob and lose out on promotions"
    - imtringued 6y ago
      The number of cities losing out does not change. If there are X competing cities X-1 cities will always lose out.
    - hardolaf 6y ago
      This is a company asking a city, that will see no income taxes from the at most 2,000 employees, permission to pay zero taxes at all to the city in exchange for the honor of housing a future EPA Super Fund site. Sure, the city will get some sales tax revenue from the 2,000 who will almost assuredly live outside of the city. So they'll get what, 6.25% of a $10 lunch from maybe 30% of workers per day? So they'll expect about $100k/yr in tax revenue in exchange for more road utilization and a future EPA Super Fund site. That doesn't seem like a good deal for the city. And that's assuming 100% of the sales tax goes to the city which it doesn't. Most of that goes to the county and state.
      - adriancr 6y ago
        Why no income taxes on the employees?, they are part of the community, why arent they paying in? How does the city even fund itself then?
        _-david-_ 6y ago
        Texas does not have an income tax. Texas has property tax and sales tax.
- numbsafari 6y ago
  Who said I’m against it? I merely raised the question. > This is a major corporation investing billions with profound impact on the community. Sure. Is that impact the same for everyone in the community, though? Or is it ultimately better for some, and not others? Could it also be that it may be a net negative for some members of the community? Also, as noted by others, Samsung already has strong incentives to build this facility in Texas, and has wanted/needed to build it for a while. This latest gambit is an effort to force local government to sweeten the deal.
- imtringued 6y ago
  The investment is creating the jobs. The tax discount isn't creating jobs. It's just moving them around. Do you really think Samsung will give up if no city gives them a tax break?
  - f430 6y ago
    without investment there would be no jobs or taxes to collect in the first place. With this single move, texas gov will be able to collect more taxes from thousands of people making 100k+ and downstream suppliers also hiring and making more money. Samsung can easily find other cities to produce in at lower cost outside America. Why is being competitive for once such a big issue here? Without the tax benefit Texans won't have thousands of high paying high skill jobs. The tax break adds up to about $40 million a year which pales in comparison to the benefits Texans will receive.
    - mywittyname 6y ago
      > Samsung can easily find other cities to produce in at lower cost outside America. No they can't. Austin and the surrounding area are key silicon fabrication regions. There are very few places in the world that can compete, and it is possible that they are forced to produce within the USA due to import/export restrictions on what they are manufacturing. This is a situation where the decision is already made, but it can't hurt to ask for tax break. Because hey, free money. Kind of like how Amazon "passed" on building out an NYC headquarters because the city wouldn't give them tax breaks (after locals protested), only to come back six months later and begin construction of their NYC HQ.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - tooltalk 6y ago
    Sure, the tax thing is probably one of the maor component here. In addition to local taxes, my understanding that SAS's current plant is in free trade zone where they also receive exemption for import/sales taxes, etc. The whole US semi industry is worried that the lion share of semi production is stlil occuring in Asia, not in the US -- which is probably why Trump admin started twisting TSMC and Samsung's arms few years ago: https://www.semiconductors.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/2020-SIA-State-of-the-Industry-Report.pdf https://www.semiconductors.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/20...
kristianp 6y ago
It's an interesting question: incentives. Samsung can't negotiate away wages like they can land taxes.