4 ms·

The tax breaks to Foxconn were just one aspect of the deal, and unless you're specifically interested in Foxconn, it makes sense to look at everything that hap

by _jal 6y ago

The tax breaks to Foxconn were just one aspect of the deal, and unless you're specifically interested in Foxconn, it makes sense to look at everything that happened. Hundreds of millions were spent on variously infra improvements, eminent-domaining people out of the way, lawyers, etc. https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-county-news-sun/ct-lns-foxconn-investment-fact-check-st-0202-20190201-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-county-news-sun/... I actually don't know how much Foxconn did get out of it. They've apparently run similar scams elsewhere, it appears to be a Foxconn side gig. There's a fun book in here for a scrappy investigative journalist.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bilbo0s 6y ago
Well, as a Wisconsinite I'd be remiss in not pointing out that this is the Chicago Tribune. Chicago and Illinois are always gleeful about the various piles of excrement we land ourselves in here in Wisconsin. That said, yeah, I also have to be honest. We're down about 1 billion dollars on that Foxconn thing. That's what we're out of pocket. The new governor, wisely, took what remained of our chips and left that table. You get mad, but you just have to chalk it up to a learning experience. The Illinois people are right on this one by the way. Not even in Illinois would their leaders get away with a 5.5 billion dollar con. The people in Illinois are so used to dealing with corruption that they would have started asking questions and raising a fuss long before it got to that point. Our problem is that we're so accustomed to our corruption that we never raised a fuss until it was way too late. All that said, in Wisconsin our leaders didn't get away with 5.5 billion dollar con either technically speaking. Scott Walker and his boys got us for about a billion, but they didn't get as much as they wanted. So fibs shouldn't gloat too much, because while I can't see anyone in Illinois getting away with a 5.5 billion dollar pure con, I could see someone getting away with maybe a billion. (It's just that they're far more wealthy than we are, so that billion doesn't hurt as much.)
- ProAm 6y ago
  > you just have to chalk it up to a learning experience Everyone knew from the start this was a BS deal and never going to happen or make ANY sense. This was pure incompetence at a political level that was paid for by tax payers.
- didibus 6y ago
  I'm definitely taken aback with how you speak of this like its two sports team.
WillPostForFood 6y ago
Hundreds of millions were spent on variously infra improvements, eminent-domaining people out of the way, lawyers, etc. This is potentially wasted money, but it did not go to Foxconn, and presumably created infrastructure jobs. Not defending the deal, but it is often mischaracterized. The benefits to the companies usually are tax rebates that are only valuable if the company makes real investments that are taxable. They are not direct payments.
- _jal 6y ago
  Purpose-built infra is almost always wasted if the purpose is unfulfilled; sure, maybe someone else can find a way to use it, but it was built to do things nobody needed. > and presumably created infrastructure jobs Usually you hear people complain about dig-a-hole-then-fill-it-up jobs. But if we're going to start supporting those, it would be best not to tie them to scams, I think.
  - bohadi 6y ago
    > and presumably created infrastructure jobs Yeah. Sounds a lot like the dig-up-all-the-carbon-burn-then-bury-it-again civilizational project going on the past 100, and next 100 years. What exactly was the purpose to "re-arranging small bits of matter near the surface of the earth" again? [1] Basically I wanted to make a comment about greedy exploitation-exploration trade-off strategies here but will stop short at this kind of eliptical passing remark. [1] paraphrasing Russell in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Praise_of_Idleness_and_Other_Essays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Praise_of_Idleness_and_Othe... it is appropriate given current moment
    - imtringued 6y ago
      >What exactly was the purpose to "re-arranging small bits of matter near the surface of the earth" again? From the same man that proposed the idea of "re-arranging small bits of matter near the surface of the earth". >It would, indeed, be more sensible to build houses and the like; but if there are political and practical difficulties in the way of this, the above would be better than nothing. It's a social hack to get around idiotic situations. It's like moving to mars because you are worried about a nuclear war or climate change. Dumb games require dumb players.
csmiller 6y ago
There was an interesting episode of Reply All on this https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/2ohgza https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/2ohgza
specialist 6y ago
> eminent-domaining people out of the way On top of everything else, abuses of eminent-domain, civil forfeiture, and so forth really, really bother me. In principle, I unconditionally support the right of the polis (the government) to do what needs to be done. My own city basically used extralegal means to wrestle numerous blighted, condemned properties away from a trust. The creators of the trust were dead and no one was left to negotiate. But hot damn these levers of power get abused. Please recommend any books, articles, etc advocating reforms.
- _jal 6y ago
  > Please recommend any books, articles, etc advocating reforms. Ilya Somin is a law professor who writes a lot on ED-reform. As far as action, the Institute for Justice looks for cases they think they can make with, and lobby for legal reform. https://ij.org/issues/private-property/eminent-domain/ https://ij.org/issues/private-property/eminent-domain/ You'll find they both come at things from a libertarian direction, but neither are rabid.

by _jal 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

bilbo0s 6y ago

Well, as a Wisconsinite I'd be remiss in not pointing out that this is the Chicago Tribune. Chicago and Illinois are always gleeful about the various piles of excrement we land ourselves in here in Wisconsin. That said, yeah, I also have to be honest. We're down about 1 billion dollars on that Foxconn thing. That's what we're out of pocket. The new governor, wisely, took what remained of our chips and left that table. You get mad, but you just have to chalk it up to a learning experience. The Illinois people are right on this one by the way. Not even in Illinois would their leaders get away with a 5.5 billion dollar con. The people in Illinois are so used to dealing with corruption that they would have started asking questions and raising a fuss long before it got to that point. Our problem is that we're so accustomed to our corruption that we never raised a fuss until it was way too late. All that said, in Wisconsin our leaders didn't get away with 5.5 billion dollar con either technically speaking. Scott Walker and his boys got us for about a billion, but they didn't get as much as they wanted. So fibs shouldn't gloat too much, because while I can't see anyone in Illinois getting away with a 5.5 billion dollar pure con, I could see someone getting away with maybe a billion. (It's just that they're far more wealthy than we are, so that billion doesn't hurt as much.)

ProAm 6y ago
> you just have to chalk it up to a learning experience Everyone knew from the start this was a BS deal and never going to happen or make ANY sense. This was pure incompetence at a political level that was paid for by tax payers.
didibus 6y ago
I'm definitely taken aback with how you speak of this like its two sports team.

WillPostForFood 6y ago

Hundreds of millions were spent on variously infra improvements, eminent-domaining people out of the way, lawyers, etc. This is potentially wasted money, but it did not go to Foxconn, and presumably created infrastructure jobs. Not defending the deal, but it is often mischaracterized. The benefits to the companies usually are tax rebates that are only valuable if the company makes real investments that are taxable. They are not direct payments.

_jal 6y ago
Purpose-built infra is almost always wasted if the purpose is unfulfilled; sure, maybe someone else can find a way to use it, but it was built to do things nobody needed. > and presumably created infrastructure jobs Usually you hear people complain about dig-a-hole-then-fill-it-up jobs. But if we're going to start supporting those, it would be best not to tie them to scams, I think.
- bohadi 6y ago
  > and presumably created infrastructure jobs Yeah. Sounds a lot like the dig-up-all-the-carbon-burn-then-bury-it-again civilizational project going on the past 100, and next 100 years. What exactly was the purpose to "re-arranging small bits of matter near the surface of the earth" again? [1] Basically I wanted to make a comment about greedy exploitation-exploration trade-off strategies here but will stop short at this kind of eliptical passing remark. [1] paraphrasing Russell in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Praise_of_Idleness_and_Other_Essays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Praise_of_Idleness_and_Othe... it is appropriate given current moment
  - imtringued 6y ago
    >What exactly was the purpose to "re-arranging small bits of matter near the surface of the earth" again? From the same man that proposed the idea of "re-arranging small bits of matter near the surface of the earth". >It would, indeed, be more sensible to build houses and the like; but if there are political and practical difficulties in the way of this, the above would be better than nothing. It's a social hack to get around idiotic situations. It's like moving to mars because you are worried about a nuclear war or climate change. Dumb games require dumb players.

csmiller 6y ago

There was an interesting episode of Reply All on this https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/2ohgza https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/2ohgza

specialist 6y ago

> eminent-domaining people out of the way On top of everything else, abuses of eminent-domain, civil forfeiture, and so forth really, really bother me. In principle, I unconditionally support the right of the polis (the government) to do what needs to be done. My own city basically used extralegal means to wrestle numerous blighted, condemned properties away from a trust. The creators of the trust were dead and no one was left to negotiate. But hot damn these levers of power get abused. Please recommend any books, articles, etc advocating reforms.

_jal 6y ago
> Please recommend any books, articles, etc advocating reforms. Ilya Somin is a law professor who writes a lot on ED-reform. As far as action, the Institute for Justice looks for cases they think they can make with, and lobby for legal reform. https://ij.org/issues/private-property/eminent-domain/ https://ij.org/issues/private-property/eminent-domain/ You'll find they both come at things from a libertarian direction, but neither are rabid.