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> does anyone know if the supply chain/parts/materials/machinery can be sourced from outside of Chinese suppliers? I don't believe there's a single part of the

> does anyone know if the supply chain/parts/materials/machinery can be sourced from outside of Chinese suppliers? I don't believe there's a single part of the semiconductor supply chain that is exclusively available from China.

reaperducer 6y ago
I don't believe there's a single part of the semiconductor supply chain that is exclusively available from China. I agree with you. But the parent comment reminds me of when Apple started making computers in Austin and HN was full of people saying, "No, you can't build computers in America because America doesn't have any screws, and can't possibly figure out how to make its own!" Time and money solve all problems. Even supply chains.
- adventured 6y ago
  The nice thing about China at its present stage of development is that everything made in China will perpetually get more expensive to make there and that will provide an ongoing advantage gain to every other location around the world that has until recently been at a steep cost disadvantage to China. Five to seven years ago it was already nearing cost-even to begin making things in the US again vs keeping that manufacturing in China, that will continue to tilt in the favor of the US by the year.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    I doubt If it was only cost... Cost of manufacturing labour is already lower in most of US territorially than in China, and is dramatically lower in other poorer countries. The saying is that only $2 of iPhone is manual labour.
    - someperson 6y ago
      Samsung smartphones shows that assembly in China is no longer required: no Samsung smartphone is made in China anymore. They're mostly made in Vietnam and now India (with some small scale manufacturing in a bunch of protectionist countries like Brazil for domestic demand but not for export) The age of China being the factory of the world is ending. And that was before Trump's trade war.
      - baybal2 6y ago
        You need to know difference in between assembly, and manufacturing. Just screwing parts, and subassemblies coming from China is assembly. Manufacturing implies integration not on just parts, and subassemblies level, and having much bigger part of the supply chain under one roof.
      - totalZero 6y ago
        Samsung still has some ODM devices assembled in China. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-china-focus/made-in-china-samsung-farms-out-more-phones-to-fend-off-rivals-idUSKBN1XR0TJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-china-focus/...
        someperson 6y ago
        Thanks for the correction. A few years ago I did read that they had low-volume ODM devices made in China for the Chinese domestic market. 80% of Samsung's smartphones being made outside China is still great though.
    - Qwertious 6y ago
      >The saying is that only $2 of iPhone is manual labour. $2 under which wage? Like, is it $2 at $1/hr or $2 at $20/hr? If the latter, it's negligible. If the former, it's an extra $39 which is apparently huge in the context of manufacturing.
- tobylane 6y ago
  I heard recently that that Apple factory’s output was limited by the number of screws their local supplier could make per week. Can this be called a solved problem? They just stopped depending on the US supplier. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/technology/iphones-apple-china-made.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/technology/iphones-apple-...

reaperducer 6y ago

I don't believe there's a single part of the semiconductor supply chain that is exclusively available from China. I agree with you. But the parent comment reminds me of when Apple started making computers in Austin and HN was full of people saying, "No, you can't build computers in America because America doesn't have any screws, and can't possibly figure out how to make its own!" Time and money solve all problems. Even supply chains.

adventured 6y ago
The nice thing about China at its present stage of development is that everything made in China will perpetually get more expensive to make there and that will provide an ongoing advantage gain to every other location around the world that has until recently been at a steep cost disadvantage to China. Five to seven years ago it was already nearing cost-even to begin making things in the US again vs keeping that manufacturing in China, that will continue to tilt in the favor of the US by the year.
- baybal2 6y ago
  I doubt If it was only cost... Cost of manufacturing labour is already lower in most of US territorially than in China, and is dramatically lower in other poorer countries. The saying is that only $2 of iPhone is manual labour.
  - someperson 6y ago
    Samsung smartphones shows that assembly in China is no longer required: no Samsung smartphone is made in China anymore. They're mostly made in Vietnam and now India (with some small scale manufacturing in a bunch of protectionist countries like Brazil for domestic demand but not for export) The age of China being the factory of the world is ending. And that was before Trump's trade war.
    - baybal2 6y ago
      You need to know difference in between assembly, and manufacturing. Just screwing parts, and subassemblies coming from China is assembly. Manufacturing implies integration not on just parts, and subassemblies level, and having much bigger part of the supply chain under one roof.
    - totalZero 6y ago
      Samsung still has some ODM devices assembled in China. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-china-focus/made-in-china-samsung-farms-out-more-phones-to-fend-off-rivals-idUSKBN1XR0TJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-samsung-elec-china-focus/...
      - someperson 6y ago
        Thanks for the correction. A few years ago I did read that they had low-volume ODM devices made in China for the Chinese domestic market. 80% of Samsung's smartphones being made outside China is still great though.
  - Qwertious 6y ago
    >The saying is that only $2 of iPhone is manual labour. $2 under which wage? Like, is it $2 at $1/hr or $2 at $20/hr? If the latter, it's negligible. If the former, it's an extra $39 which is apparently huge in the context of manufacturing.
tobylane 6y ago
I heard recently that that Apple factory’s output was limited by the number of screws their local supplier could make per week. Can this be called a solved problem? They just stopped depending on the US supplier. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/technology/iphones-apple-china-made.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/technology/iphones-apple-...