11 ms·

Why will someone use it? It looks like first android phones. I mean usability and security.

by asjkaehauisa 6y ago

admax88q 6y ago
And yet people used the first android phones.
- kelnos 6y ago
  Tables stakes is now a lot higher than what was offered by the first Android phones. Unfortunately the barrier to entry into the mobile phone market has risen considerably since then.
  - admax88q 6y ago
    Yeah yeah that's fair. But every time a new product comes along that isn't _yet_ as good as Android or iPhone HN commentators reflexively dismiss it. I get that that when its some new proprietary product trying to enter the market, but when its something grass roots and community driven line the pinephone with classic linux distribution on it... I dunno, I guess I just expect HN to have more intellectual curiosity in technical projects, rather than surface level critique of packaged goods. That's the sort of thing I spend time on this site for, but those sorts of discussions are far and few between. Maybe its just time to move on, I can't relate to 90% of HN comments anymore.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  "Back when they were the pinnacle of technology", he thought but didn't say.
  - marcodiego 6y ago
    The computer in my pocket doesn't needs to be the "pinnacle of technology". It just needs to be "good enough". But, until we arrive there, some people will have to be willing to accept options which are still not "good enough" or else we'll never arrive there. It is sad that pioneers and early adopters often suffer more and are anonymous heroes that enable advanced user-respecting technology for the rest of the people. Think of this like the people who used KHTML based browsers. Their compromise allowed us to have the quick browsers we enjoy today but they had to endure broken websites for years.
jraph 6y ago
I use a PinePhone as a daily driver. - its camera is not good - its battery life is not good - its call quality is not good - SMSes are not completely reliable - receiving MMSes works, but you need to use a custom command line tool that you might have written yourself for that - sending MMSes, I have not even tried. Probably possible, but impractical - it's barely usable for GPS navigation - it's a bit slow - Web browsing is a bit clunky but is largely usable - its overall usability is not very good It's a prototype. But it is a bet for the future. A future in which there are usable phones running OSes whose roadmap do not depend on corporations that close everything in a walled garden or who depend on massively tracking people. A future in which every single line of code running on the phone can be studied, improved and shared. A future in which updates are not at the mercy of the manufacturer. Actually, you can already have one foot in this future thanks to this phone, and many things are being fixed at a remarkable pace. I hope we will see higher-end hardware for the OSes running on the PinePhone soon.
- marcodiego 6y ago
  Best pro argument I ever read about it. Will try to re-use it when people complain that I'm paying more for a hardware that does less.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > I hope we will see higher-end hardware for the OSes running on the Pinephone soon. According to discussions on the Pine64 boards, it will probably take 4-5 years before we see an upgrade to the underpowered and obsolete A64 chip inside the PinePhone, and when that happens, even that new chip may already seem antiquated.
  - jraph 6y ago
    Yeah, this sucks a bit. Those phones need hardware that does not depend on proprietary blobs to work, and such hardware is not very common. Even the hardware in the PinePhone is not perfect in this regard: the modem runs a closed firmware (though people are getting mainline Linux to run on the modem so there's hope!), and the Wi-Fi/Bluetooth chip too (like in most regular laptops anyway…) In the meantime though, I would be happy with an outdated SoC but a decent camera and good call quality for people you call. 5 GHz Wi-Fi would be wonderful. 3G of RAM is already comfortable. A better screen would be fantastic but the one on the PinePhone is more than usable. Better battery life would be nice too, but it is coming to the PinePhone with a custom case that will also provide a keyboard, and you can always carry a power tank or a spare battery since the one in the PinePhone is removable!
freedomben 6y ago
Aside from the standard reason of ideals regarding FOSS and freedom-respecting hardware/software, Android is getting less and less hacker friendly in many ways. I won't likely switch as a daily driver for some time as my phone is critical to my business, but I'll support these efforts and plan to switch eventually. Until then I'll probably have two phones :-D
thepete2 6y ago
It's a handy portable linux device. A phone that lets you treat it like a real computer, not a locked down consumer device.
eeZah7Ux 6y ago
Usability: being able to do apt-get and write Python scripts on my phone makes it a portable automation and computing tool rather than a phone. Security: Android is choke-full of spyware.

Why will someone use it? It looks like first android phones. I mean usability and security.

admax88q 6y ago

And yet people used the first android phones.

kelnos 6y ago
Tables stakes is now a lot higher than what was offered by the first Android phones. Unfortunately the barrier to entry into the mobile phone market has risen considerably since then.
- admax88q 6y ago
  Yeah yeah that's fair. But every time a new product comes along that isn't _yet_ as good as Android or iPhone HN commentators reflexively dismiss it. I get that that when its some new proprietary product trying to enter the market, but when its something grass roots and community driven line the pinephone with classic linux distribution on it... I dunno, I guess I just expect HN to have more intellectual curiosity in technical projects, rather than surface level critique of packaged goods. That's the sort of thing I spend time on this site for, but those sorts of discussions are far and few between. Maybe its just time to move on, I can't relate to 90% of HN comments anymore.
StavrosK 6y ago
"Back when they were the pinnacle of technology", he thought but didn't say.
- marcodiego 6y ago
  The computer in my pocket doesn't needs to be the "pinnacle of technology". It just needs to be "good enough". But, until we arrive there, some people will have to be willing to accept options which are still not "good enough" or else we'll never arrive there. It is sad that pioneers and early adopters often suffer more and are anonymous heroes that enable advanced user-respecting technology for the rest of the people. Think of this like the people who used KHTML based browsers. Their compromise allowed us to have the quick browsers we enjoy today but they had to endure broken websites for years.

jraph 6y ago

I use a PinePhone as a daily driver. - its camera is not good - its battery life is not good - its call quality is not good - SMSes are not completely reliable - receiving MMSes works, but you need to use a custom command line tool that you might have written yourself for that - sending MMSes, I have not even tried. Probably possible, but impractical - it's barely usable for GPS navigation - it's a bit slow - Web browsing is a bit clunky but is largely usable - its overall usability is not very good It's a prototype. But it is a bet for the future. A future in which there are usable phones running OSes whose roadmap do not depend on corporations that close everything in a walled garden or who depend on massively tracking people. A future in which every single line of code running on the phone can be studied, improved and shared. A future in which updates are not at the mercy of the manufacturer. Actually, you can already have one foot in this future thanks to this phone, and many things are being fixed at a remarkable pace. I hope we will see higher-end hardware for the OSes running on the PinePhone soon.

marcodiego 6y ago
Best pro argument I ever read about it. Will try to re-use it when people complain that I'm paying more for a hardware that does less.
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
> I hope we will see higher-end hardware for the OSes running on the Pinephone soon. According to discussions on the Pine64 boards, it will probably take 4-5 years before we see an upgrade to the underpowered and obsolete A64 chip inside the PinePhone, and when that happens, even that new chip may already seem antiquated.
- jraph 6y ago
  Yeah, this sucks a bit. Those phones need hardware that does not depend on proprietary blobs to work, and such hardware is not very common. Even the hardware in the PinePhone is not perfect in this regard: the modem runs a closed firmware (though people are getting mainline Linux to run on the modem so there's hope!), and the Wi-Fi/Bluetooth chip too (like in most regular laptops anyway…) In the meantime though, I would be happy with an outdated SoC but a decent camera and good call quality for people you call. 5 GHz Wi-Fi would be wonderful. 3G of RAM is already comfortable. A better screen would be fantastic but the one on the PinePhone is more than usable. Better battery life would be nice too, but it is coming to the PinePhone with a custom case that will also provide a keyboard, and you can always carry a power tank or a spare battery since the one in the PinePhone is removable!

freedomben 6y ago

Aside from the standard reason of ideals regarding FOSS and freedom-respecting hardware/software, Android is getting less and less hacker friendly in many ways. I won't likely switch as a daily driver for some time as my phone is critical to my business, but I'll support these efforts and plan to switch eventually. Until then I'll probably have two phones :-D

thepete2 6y ago

It's a handy portable linux device. A phone that lets you treat it like a real computer, not a locked down consumer device.

eeZah7Ux 6y ago

Usability: being able to do apt-get and write Python scripts on my phone makes it a portable automation and computing tool rather than a phone. Security: Android is choke-full of spyware.