6 ms·

Man to pay £25,000 damages over negative TrustPilot review

37 points by iechoz6H 6y ago

nodex-alex 6y ago
The law firm evidently don't like honest reviews, if they don't like reviews don't have a trust pilot page. Disgusting behaviour, I hope they lose more than just a few clients because of this.
wizzwizz4 6y ago
You shouldn't mess with companies wealthy enough to hire good lawyers, but you should never mess with lawyers.
- baliex 6y ago
  I think we can all agree with the sentiment but it's sad to see a case such as this that proves it to be true. Reviews in support of the defendent already coming in thick and fast, https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.summerfieldbrowne.com https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.summerfieldbrowne.com
- YuccaGloriosa 6y ago
  This just ends up with lawyers thinking they can do whatever the hell they want. Especially when it costs them next to nothing to prepare court documents.
nicktelford 6y ago
Now that there's an article about this on BBC News, I wonder how much this firm will suffer from the Streisand Effect[1]. It was foolish of the defendant to not attend the hearing. I can't understand why he didn't. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
- jansan 6y ago
  If you check the recent ratings on TrustPilot, it already seems to take effect: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.summerfieldbrowne.com https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.summerfieldbrowne.com Guess the damage done by trying to ruin a customer's life more than offsets what they won in court.
  - WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
    Apparently there's an "Alert" now, and reviews are disabled.
    - switch007 6y ago
      Give it a few more minutes and no doubt they'll be removed for ToS violations or something.
      - egman_ekki 6y ago
        Any negative review can be disputed by the company (if they are a client of TrustPilot) and the reviewer has to provide evidence within 7 days (iirc), else the review gets removed. So I'm quite sure all 1 star reviews will be gone in no time.
dd82 6y ago
looks like this was a default judgement because the defendant >... did not attend the online hearing or send a legal representative. when that happens, the judgement is a default to the plantiff. so its his own fault, and the headline is fairly inaccurate. to be more accurate, would be "Man doesn't show up to court, defaults judgement of 25k pounds over negative review"
- rogual 6y ago
  Saved me a click, thanks. The BBC has a real problem with clickbait headlines. It's still kind of interesting that they even sued him, I suppose. And by looking at their Trustpilot page now, it doesn't seem to be working out well for them.
- matsemann 6y ago
  See the comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26076696 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26076696 Apparently he felt he was being forced to pay 6k just to even defend himself.
marcus_holmes 6y ago
Be interesting to see the Streisand Effect of publishing this on the BBC site. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the legal firm is forced to rename/rebrand in a few months because its reputation is trashed. You can win the battle, but lose the war...
- albertgoeswoof 6y ago
  Would that mean they can sue for more than 25k damages, if the damages are actually more widespread, is the original reviewer at fault for this?
  - pyb 6y ago
    No, they cannot sue twice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_judicata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_judicata)
  - syshum 6y ago
    Only in the UK against UK Citizens, if the Sites and people spreading the Info where in the US they would have no recourse as this review would absolutely fall under first amendment protections and they would get no where in the US court system, and if they picked the wrong venue would get hit with an Anti-SLAPP claim and likely have to pay the defendant
- dogma1138 6y ago
  Looks like the Google review on the firm are already pilling up due to the article... https://www.google.com/search?q=SUMMERFIELD+BROWNE+LIMITED https://www.google.com/search?q=SUMMERFIELD+BROWNE+LIMITED
SirLJ 6y ago
Can you trust TrustPilot? https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/trust-pilot-the-mecca-of-fraudulent-trading-reviews/ https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/trust-pilot-the-mecca...
albertgoeswoof 6y ago
Here's the review, interesting that it's still up: https://uk.trustpilot.com/users/56324e750000ff0001e69c5f https://uk.trustpilot.com/users/56324e750000ff0001e69c5f > A total waste of money another scam solicitor > Avoid this solicitor - Summerfield Browne use their own clients confidential information to sue them if they give a bad review. That's why you will not see a bad review of this solicitor, they are now trying to sue me for defamation for the following honest review, rather than refund my money: A total waste of money, another scam solicitor. Stacey mills left the company half way through my assessment and the replacement was useless. I paid upfront for a legal assessment of my case, but what I got was just the information I sent them, reworded and sent back to me. No new information or how to proceed or what the law says or indeed the implications of what was done. I Just got their false assumptions, full of errors showing a lack of understanding for the situation and the law. Once they have your money they are totally apathetic towards you. You will learn more from forums, youtube and the Citizens advice website about your case, for free. You can judge for yourself if this is defamation and untrue. "Scam solicitor" is the term that probably pushes this over the edge.
- imdsm 6y ago
  £25,000 — an expensive review. Totally the chaps fault for defaulting though, should have just shown up.
  - albertgoeswoof 6y ago
    Here is why he claims he didn't show up: > I didn't lie in my review of Sommerfield Browne and them suing their own client for gain shows everyone what they are. > Their friends and family will back them up, as will the other lawyers. > I submitted my case based on written law and the judge said it did not apply to me and ordered me to omit the law from my submission, before the trial hearing. > The fact is the judge put £6,000 costs on me before the case was even heard - I was literally priced out of justice. I could not attend or I would be accepting these costs. I cannot fight a rich solicitor in front of a biased judge. Seeing there was no justice here I decided not to give the court legitimacy by attending.
imdsm 6y ago
Terrible outcome for this chap but also his own fault for not attending. Pretty sure this will cost the firm more than £25,000 though in the long run. I definitely wouldn't use them, even though I wouldn't post a scathing review. Or maybe I would -- use some of that snide energy direct at a particular legal target.
ianhawes 6y ago
Protip for anyone facing similar negative reviews on TrustPilot: Seek out positive reviews to counteract negative ones. You will (hopefully) find that most people have a positive experience. If you don’t find that, perhaps a negative review is the least of your worries. Once you have a stream of new positive reviews you can generally let negative ones slide much easier. People are acutely aware that not EVERYONE has a positive experience, they just want to see that the negative reviews are people being irrational or for something that won’t apply to them.
- lordnacho 6y ago
  The business model of TP is to help people get these positive reviews, since they're harder to coax out of satisfied customers. They know that unhappy people want to vent, and they make it easy for them to do so. It's a real grey zone from what I can see, and I wouldn't want to be supporting it.
  - ianhawes 6y ago
    I am a client of TrustPilot. We dispatch their review invites to every single one of our clients regardless of their experience. We typically have no trouble coaxing 5 star reviews.
fennecfoxen 6y ago
Reminder to Americans: Libel suits are a little harder to pursue here, but, much like in the UK case, the high price of pursuing justice (the defendant quoted £6000 just to fight it in this case) means it can still bankrupt you just to get anywhere near a resolution, even to a summary judgment when the facts are very much in your favor. Support the First Amendment and support anti-SLAPP statues: https://www.popehat.com/2012/06/07/why-yes-i-am-into-slapping/ https://www.popehat.com/2012/06/07/why-yes-i-am-into-slappin...
noja 6y ago
Question for anyone: if justice is fair and the system works, why are some lawyers paid so much more than others?
- lucozade 6y ago
  Justice being fair isn't the same as saying that all justice is identical. If a lawyer works a case that takes a reasonable lawyer a day to complete, why would you expect the same compensation as a lawyer that works on a complex case for a year? That doesn't imply unfairness. It doesn't even imply capitalism.
  - syshum 6y ago
    I dont think that is the claim... The claim is that on any given case you may find a lawyer that is $100 or that is $1,000,000 for the same case This is what creates the dual tiered legal system, if you can afford the High priced law firm, that has all the resources and talent to find every legal loop hole you win.. In the modern legal system, often times who ever has the deeper pockets wins.
    - noja 6y ago
      Exactly. Take, say, megacorp against mom and pop shop. No-one can claim with a straight face that the case would be equally fair to both sides.
- csours 6y ago
  > 'if justice is fair and the system works' Justice and The System only work fairly in so much as we make them work fairly. People have fought revolutions over this stuff. As for being paid well, lawyers may be considered primordial devops, dealing with the source code of society. It would make sense for there to be 10x law engineers.
- tjalfi 6y ago
  > Question for anyone: if justice is fair and the system works, why are some lawyers paid so much more than others? TL,DR - it's a market economy and legal fees vary due to supply and demand. Here are some of the factors that legal fees are based on, many of these are true for any professional services firm. Practice Area - Some types of expertise are rarer. Few lawyers, for example, specialize in smart contracts. Market Rates - Rates, like the cost of living, are higher in some regions. Market Position - How is the firm positioning itself? Are they trying for bottom of the market (Walmart), middle of the market (Trader Joe's), or top of the market (a boutique)? Peer Rates - What are other firms with the same market position charging for this practice area in this region? You don't want to leave money on the table or price yourself out of the market. Experience - Lawyers with more experience can charge more; there's only one David Boies[0]. Volume of Work - Customers who regularly use legal services can often negotiate a discount. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Boies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Boies
theXspidy 6y ago
Get daily news straight to your inbox with https://CutThroughTheNoise.co https://CutThroughTheNoise.co For free
vmception 6y ago
always sue in the UK lol, I love catching keyboard warriors off guard
xfz 6y ago
The solicitors firm has probably trashed their own reputation for good by doing this. They could have just exploited Trustpilot to get the review suppressed. This video can be annoying and has some strong language, but contains some good points about Trustpilot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMSMjF_b_Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMSMjF_b_Y
xfz 6y ago
One of the reviews: > They track you on their website without any form of confirmation which is required under GDPR law. Since it's been law for well over a year I dread to think how many times this firm has broken the law themselves. I encourage all people that have visited their site to record proof of you being on their site and take these shady lawyers to court. I would advise suing for £25,000... They might only get £750 each ("Halliday v Creation Consumer Finance Ltd") but I would definitely do that. At the very least, a complaint to the ICO. Another review: > Moral: DO NOT SHOP at any online store, if they use trustpilot Absolutely. I usually take my business elsewhere if a site prominently displays Trustpilot. Where that's not to my advantage, I write to their DPO citing GDPR Article 21 and request that they do not in any way share my data with this website.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
agilob 6y ago
They claim to be experts in Internet law but their website isn't GDPR compliant... https://www.summerfieldbrowne.com/internet/4582280575 https://www.summerfieldbrowne.com/internet/4582280575
paulpauper 6y ago
It is the UK..so yeah good luck collecting anything

37 points by iechoz6H 6y ago

The law firm evidently don't like honest reviews, if they don't like reviews don't have a trust pilot page. Disgusting behaviour, I hope they lose more than just a few clients because of this.

wizzwizz4 6y ago

You shouldn't mess with companies wealthy enough to hire good lawyers, but you should never mess with lawyers.

baliex 6y ago
I think we can all agree with the sentiment but it's sad to see a case such as this that proves it to be true. Reviews in support of the defendent already coming in thick and fast, https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.summerfieldbrowne.com https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.summerfieldbrowne.com
YuccaGloriosa 6y ago
This just ends up with lawyers thinking they can do whatever the hell they want. Especially when it costs them next to nothing to prepare court documents.

nicktelford 6y ago

Now that there's an article about this on BBC News, I wonder how much this firm will suffer from the Streisand Effect[1]. It was foolish of the defendant to not attend the hearing. I can't understand why he didn't. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

jansan 6y ago
If you check the recent ratings on TrustPilot, it already seems to take effect: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.summerfieldbrowne.com https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.summerfieldbrowne.com Guess the damage done by trying to ruin a customer's life more than offsets what they won in court.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
  Apparently there's an "Alert" now, and reviews are disabled.
  - switch007 6y ago
    Give it a few more minutes and no doubt they'll be removed for ToS violations or something.
    - egman_ekki 6y ago
      Any negative review can be disputed by the company (if they are a client of TrustPilot) and the reviewer has to provide evidence within 7 days (iirc), else the review gets removed. So I'm quite sure all 1 star reviews will be gone in no time.

dd82 6y ago

looks like this was a default judgement because the defendant >... did not attend the online hearing or send a legal representative. when that happens, the judgement is a default to the plantiff. so its his own fault, and the headline is fairly inaccurate. to be more accurate, would be "Man doesn't show up to court, defaults judgement of 25k pounds over negative review"

rogual 6y ago
Saved me a click, thanks. The BBC has a real problem with clickbait headlines. It's still kind of interesting that they even sued him, I suppose. And by looking at their Trustpilot page now, it doesn't seem to be working out well for them.
matsemann 6y ago
See the comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26076696 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26076696 Apparently he felt he was being forced to pay 6k just to even defend himself.

marcus_holmes 6y ago

Be interesting to see the Streisand Effect of publishing this on the BBC site. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the legal firm is forced to rename/rebrand in a few months because its reputation is trashed. You can win the battle, but lose the war...

albertgoeswoof 6y ago
Would that mean they can sue for more than 25k damages, if the damages are actually more widespread, is the original reviewer at fault for this?
- pyb 6y ago
  No, they cannot sue twice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_judicata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_judicata)
- syshum 6y ago
  Only in the UK against UK Citizens, if the Sites and people spreading the Info where in the US they would have no recourse as this review would absolutely fall under first amendment protections and they would get no where in the US court system, and if they picked the wrong venue would get hit with an Anti-SLAPP claim and likely have to pay the defendant
dogma1138 6y ago
Looks like the Google review on the firm are already pilling up due to the article... https://www.google.com/search?q=SUMMERFIELD+BROWNE+LIMITED https://www.google.com/search?q=SUMMERFIELD+BROWNE+LIMITED

SirLJ 6y ago

Can you trust TrustPilot? https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/trust-pilot-the-mecca-of-fraudulent-trading-reviews/ https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/trust-pilot-the-mecca...

albertgoeswoof 6y ago

Here's the review, interesting that it's still up: https://uk.trustpilot.com/users/56324e750000ff0001e69c5f https://uk.trustpilot.com/users/56324e750000ff0001e69c5f > A total waste of money another scam solicitor > Avoid this solicitor - Summerfield Browne use their own clients confidential information to sue them if they give a bad review. That's why you will not see a bad review of this solicitor, they are now trying to sue me for defamation for the following honest review, rather than refund my money: A total waste of money, another scam solicitor. Stacey mills left the company half way through my assessment and the replacement was useless. I paid upfront for a legal assessment of my case, but what I got was just the information I sent them, reworded and sent back to me. No new information or how to proceed or what the law says or indeed the implications of what was done. I Just got their false assumptions, full of errors showing a lack of understanding for the situation and the law. Once they have your money they are totally apathetic towards you. You will learn more from forums, youtube and the Citizens advice website about your case, for free. You can judge for yourself if this is defamation and untrue. "Scam solicitor" is the term that probably pushes this over the edge.

imdsm 6y ago
£25,000 — an expensive review. Totally the chaps fault for defaulting though, should have just shown up.
- albertgoeswoof 6y ago
  Here is why he claims he didn't show up: > I didn't lie in my review of Sommerfield Browne and them suing their own client for gain shows everyone what they are. > Their friends and family will back them up, as will the other lawyers. > I submitted my case based on written law and the judge said it did not apply to me and ordered me to omit the law from my submission, before the trial hearing. > The fact is the judge put £6,000 costs on me before the case was even heard - I was literally priced out of justice. I could not attend or I would be accepting these costs. I cannot fight a rich solicitor in front of a biased judge. Seeing there was no justice here I decided not to give the court legitimacy by attending.

imdsm 6y ago

Terrible outcome for this chap but also his own fault for not attending. Pretty sure this will cost the firm more than £25,000 though in the long run. I definitely wouldn't use them, even though I wouldn't post a scathing review. Or maybe I would -- use some of that snide energy direct at a particular legal target.

ianhawes 6y ago

Protip for anyone facing similar negative reviews on TrustPilot: Seek out positive reviews to counteract negative ones. You will (hopefully) find that most people have a positive experience. If you don’t find that, perhaps a negative review is the least of your worries. Once you have a stream of new positive reviews you can generally let negative ones slide much easier. People are acutely aware that not EVERYONE has a positive experience, they just want to see that the negative reviews are people being irrational or for something that won’t apply to them.

lordnacho 6y ago
The business model of TP is to help people get these positive reviews, since they're harder to coax out of satisfied customers. They know that unhappy people want to vent, and they make it easy for them to do so. It's a real grey zone from what I can see, and I wouldn't want to be supporting it.
- ianhawes 6y ago
  I am a client of TrustPilot. We dispatch their review invites to every single one of our clients regardless of their experience. We typically have no trouble coaxing 5 star reviews.

fennecfoxen 6y ago

Reminder to Americans: Libel suits are a little harder to pursue here, but, much like in the UK case, the high price of pursuing justice (the defendant quoted £6000 just to fight it in this case) means it can still bankrupt you just to get anywhere near a resolution, even to a summary judgment when the facts are very much in your favor. Support the First Amendment and support anti-SLAPP statues: https://www.popehat.com/2012/06/07/why-yes-i-am-into-slapping/ https://www.popehat.com/2012/06/07/why-yes-i-am-into-slappin...

noja 6y ago

Question for anyone: if justice is fair and the system works, why are some lawyers paid so much more than others?

lucozade 6y ago
Justice being fair isn't the same as saying that all justice is identical. If a lawyer works a case that takes a reasonable lawyer a day to complete, why would you expect the same compensation as a lawyer that works on a complex case for a year? That doesn't imply unfairness. It doesn't even imply capitalism.
- syshum 6y ago
  I dont think that is the claim... The claim is that on any given case you may find a lawyer that is $100 or that is $1,000,000 for the same case This is what creates the dual tiered legal system, if you can afford the High priced law firm, that has all the resources and talent to find every legal loop hole you win.. In the modern legal system, often times who ever has the deeper pockets wins.
  - noja 6y ago
    Exactly. Take, say, megacorp against mom and pop shop. No-one can claim with a straight face that the case would be equally fair to both sides.
csours 6y ago
> 'if justice is fair and the system works' Justice and The System only work fairly in so much as we make them work fairly. People have fought revolutions over this stuff. As for being paid well, lawyers may be considered primordial devops, dealing with the source code of society. It would make sense for there to be 10x law engineers.
tjalfi 6y ago
> Question for anyone: if justice is fair and the system works, why are some lawyers paid so much more than others? TL,DR - it's a market economy and legal fees vary due to supply and demand. Here are some of the factors that legal fees are based on, many of these are true for any professional services firm. Practice Area - Some types of expertise are rarer. Few lawyers, for example, specialize in smart contracts. Market Rates - Rates, like the cost of living, are higher in some regions. Market Position - How is the firm positioning itself? Are they trying for bottom of the market (Walmart), middle of the market (Trader Joe's), or top of the market (a boutique)? Peer Rates - What are other firms with the same market position charging for this practice area in this region? You don't want to leave money on the table or price yourself out of the market. Experience - Lawyers with more experience can charge more; there's only one David Boies[0]. Volume of Work - Customers who regularly use legal services can often negotiate a discount. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Boies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Boies

theXspidy 6y ago

Get daily news straight to your inbox with https://CutThroughTheNoise.co https://CutThroughTheNoise.co For free

vmception 6y ago

always sue in the UK lol, I love catching keyboard warriors off guard

xfz 6y ago

The solicitors firm has probably trashed their own reputation for good by doing this. They could have just exploited Trustpilot to get the review suppressed. This video can be annoying and has some strong language, but contains some good points about Trustpilot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMSMjF_b_Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMSMjF_b_Y

xfz 6y ago

One of the reviews: > They track you on their website without any form of confirmation which is required under GDPR law. Since it's been law for well over a year I dread to think how many times this firm has broken the law themselves. I encourage all people that have visited their site to record proof of you being on their site and take these shady lawyers to court. I would advise suing for £25,000... They might only get £750 each ("Halliday v Creation Consumer Finance Ltd") but I would definitely do that. At the very least, a complaint to the ICO. Another review: > Moral: DO NOT SHOP at any online store, if they use trustpilot Absolutely. I usually take my business elsewhere if a site prominently displays Trustpilot. Where that's not to my advantage, I write to their DPO citing GDPR Article 21 and request that they do not in any way share my data with this website.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

agilob 6y ago

They claim to be experts in Internet law but their website isn't GDPR compliant... https://www.summerfieldbrowne.com/internet/4582280575 https://www.summerfieldbrowne.com/internet/4582280575

paulpauper 6y ago

It is the UK..so yeah good luck collecting anything