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As far as preserving civil liberties in America, I much preferred GOA over the NRA. While the NRA traditionally has been a great organization in preserving the

As far as preserving civil liberties in America, I much preferred GOA over the NRA. While the NRA traditionally has been a great organization in preserving the heritage of marksmanship in America, somewhere in the late 90s or early 2000s the wheels came off. I don't think the CEO of such an organization should be making $800k/year.

AtlasBarfed 6y ago
Once paranoia-based gun sales became a pervasive and profitable, it was my impression that manufacturers and their funding took over the NRA. Although causality may be reversed there. I would also be curious to see if the left's accusations of foreign funding / interference had any truth.
- pjc50 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Butina#National_Rifle_Association https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Butina#National_Rifle_... : truth enough for wikipedia.
- HideousKojima 6y ago
  The NRA receives relatively little funding from gun manufacturers, and most of what it does receive from gun manufacturers is in the form of advertisments in the NRA's official publications, etc. The vast majority of the NRA's funding is from individual members. The gun industry has its own well-funded lobby, the NSSF. They don't really need the NRA.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  Unless the NRA is straight-up lying on their IRS paperwork, they get a fairly small amount of money from manufacturers. The majority comes from individual donations and membership dues
wl 6y ago
I can envision an NRA where paying the CEO $800k/year is warranted. But this NRA isn't it. This NRA has tied its fortunes to the Trumpist GOP and promoting tired culture war narratives, seriously harming their political influence and their ability to advance gun policy favored by gun owners.
- exabrial 6y ago
  Well said, I agree
- bzb6 6y ago
  Wouldn’t this be the logical result of the demonisation of guns by the left? I understand they can’t pretend to be bipartisan when one of the parties want to strip them of their rights.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    No, it's pretty clearly counterproductive. Over the past 10 years, the NRA has successfully reduced the share of gun-friendly Democratic Party members from 25% to nearly 0%. (https://www.thetrace.org/2020/09/nra-grades-2020-election/ https://www.thetrace.org/2020/09/nra-grades-2020-election/) Gun-friendly people on the left like myself are basically unable to talk about the issue nowadays; forget concealed carry or large-capacity magazines, in a lot of circles I'm not comfortable discussing even absolute basic things like "you might want a gun for home protection if you live in a high crime area". Making your cause a parochial concern of a single political party is almost always going to be good for that party and bad for your cause.
    - bzb6 6y ago
      I see your point but why do you blame the NRA for this instead of the left? They are the ones alienating you!
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        Because it wasn't like this until the NRA ramped up their identification with the right. Again, as recently as 2010 there was a large minority of openly pro-gun people on the left.
        gamblor956 6y ago
        To back that up, I know a great many left-leaning gun owners in LA that would never join the NRA as a matter of principle (due to its extreme positions), including members of law enforcement, retired military personnel, and regular joes who just like guns and things that go boom.
nemo44x 6y ago
It’s a shame really. They don’t represent the gun owner as much as the manufacturers today. They were once a reputable civil rights org and now are more of a lobby. I hope a new civil rights organization begins to lead and is able not be as fundamentalist as the NRA has become and lead the conversation towards a few common sense reforms. It’s an important civil right and one we should cherish. It deserves a group committed to defending the bill of rights while also working to limit access to criminals.
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  Yes, "gun rights" has unfortunately become as extremist as politics. Gun owners are not allowed to even entertain tougher gun laws whether they be red flag laws, requiring you own a safe, restrictions on magazine size, etc. In fact the push from gun rights advocates is to move in the opposite direction: to allow reciprocal concealed carry in every state, reversing the National Firearms Act that restricts ownership of fully automatic weapons, legalizing silencers, etc. Poor Dick Metcalf, editor of Guns and Ammo — was shown the door when an editorial of his after Newtown suggested that maybe gun laws were too lax. > He has stated that "way too many gun owners still seem to believe that any regulation of the right to keep and bear arms is an infringement" and that "all constitutional rights are regulated, always have been, and need to be". In terms of specific policies, he supports the requirement of adults getting a concealed carry license to take gun safety and handling classes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Metcalf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Metcalf
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > reversing the National Firearms Act that restricts ownership of fully automatic weapons, legalizing silencers, etc. That's wrong. IIRC, the NFA only requires that machine guns and silencers be registered and taxed. See this Forgotten Weapons episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po715YGEzTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po715YGEzTY. It's for a fully automatic M-16 with a device that makes it sound like an AK-47 that's regulated as a silencer. It was up for auction, but the winner would have to pay double the tax because it's a "two stamp" gun.
seany 6y ago
GOA and SAF have gotten much more of my money and time for the last few years. I still think there is a large gap to fill if the NRA were to go away. Mostly around outreach, training, and insurance. The other guys are getting there, but the NRA is big for a reason.
- aksss 6y ago
  Yes, many people forget that the NRA is more than politics. It helps range startup and operations, runs a training/safety/certification curriculum, facilitates sports/competition events, standards, and materials. These are dimensions that GOA and SAF have nothing to do with. The foundational role it has in gun culture probably makes it a juicier target than their lobbying, considering they are consistently outspent by the gun control lobby in state ballot measures each year.
technobabble 6y ago
Frontline did a very informative documentary about this circa 2009. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/gunned-down/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/gunned-down/ edit:grammar

AtlasBarfed 6y ago

Once paranoia-based gun sales became a pervasive and profitable, it was my impression that manufacturers and their funding took over the NRA. Although causality may be reversed there. I would also be curious to see if the left's accusations of foreign funding / interference had any truth.

pjc50 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Butina#National_Rifle_Association https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Butina#National_Rifle_... : truth enough for wikipedia.
HideousKojima 6y ago
The NRA receives relatively little funding from gun manufacturers, and most of what it does receive from gun manufacturers is in the form of advertisments in the NRA's official publications, etc. The vast majority of the NRA's funding is from individual members. The gun industry has its own well-funded lobby, the NSSF. They don't really need the NRA.
Rebelgecko 6y ago
Unless the NRA is straight-up lying on their IRS paperwork, they get a fairly small amount of money from manufacturers. The majority comes from individual donations and membership dues

wl 6y ago

I can envision an NRA where paying the CEO $800k/year is warranted. But this NRA isn't it. This NRA has tied its fortunes to the Trumpist GOP and promoting tired culture war narratives, seriously harming their political influence and their ability to advance gun policy favored by gun owners.

exabrial 6y ago
Well said, I agree
bzb6 6y ago
Wouldn’t this be the logical result of the demonisation of guns by the left? I understand they can’t pretend to be bipartisan when one of the parties want to strip them of their rights.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  No, it's pretty clearly counterproductive. Over the past 10 years, the NRA has successfully reduced the share of gun-friendly Democratic Party members from 25% to nearly 0%. (https://www.thetrace.org/2020/09/nra-grades-2020-election/ https://www.thetrace.org/2020/09/nra-grades-2020-election/) Gun-friendly people on the left like myself are basically unable to talk about the issue nowadays; forget concealed carry or large-capacity magazines, in a lot of circles I'm not comfortable discussing even absolute basic things like "you might want a gun for home protection if you live in a high crime area". Making your cause a parochial concern of a single political party is almost always going to be good for that party and bad for your cause.
  - bzb6 6y ago
    I see your point but why do you blame the NRA for this instead of the left? They are the ones alienating you!
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      Because it wasn't like this until the NRA ramped up their identification with the right. Again, as recently as 2010 there was a large minority of openly pro-gun people on the left.
      - gamblor956 6y ago
        To back that up, I know a great many left-leaning gun owners in LA that would never join the NRA as a matter of principle (due to its extreme positions), including members of law enforcement, retired military personnel, and regular joes who just like guns and things that go boom.

nemo44x 6y ago

It’s a shame really. They don’t represent the gun owner as much as the manufacturers today. They were once a reputable civil rights org and now are more of a lobby. I hope a new civil rights organization begins to lead and is able not be as fundamentalist as the NRA has become and lead the conversation towards a few common sense reforms. It’s an important civil right and one we should cherish. It deserves a group committed to defending the bill of rights while also working to limit access to criminals.

JKCalhoun 6y ago
Yes, "gun rights" has unfortunately become as extremist as politics. Gun owners are not allowed to even entertain tougher gun laws whether they be red flag laws, requiring you own a safe, restrictions on magazine size, etc. In fact the push from gun rights advocates is to move in the opposite direction: to allow reciprocal concealed carry in every state, reversing the National Firearms Act that restricts ownership of fully automatic weapons, legalizing silencers, etc. Poor Dick Metcalf, editor of Guns and Ammo — was shown the door when an editorial of his after Newtown suggested that maybe gun laws were too lax. > He has stated that "way too many gun owners still seem to believe that any regulation of the right to keep and bear arms is an infringement" and that "all constitutional rights are regulated, always have been, and need to be". In terms of specific policies, he supports the requirement of adults getting a concealed carry license to take gun safety and handling classes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Metcalf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Metcalf
- ardy42 6y ago
  > reversing the National Firearms Act that restricts ownership of fully automatic weapons, legalizing silencers, etc. That's wrong. IIRC, the NFA only requires that machine guns and silencers be registered and taxed. See this Forgotten Weapons episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po715YGEzTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po715YGEzTY. It's for a fully automatic M-16 with a device that makes it sound like an AK-47 that's regulated as a silencer. It was up for auction, but the winner would have to pay double the tax because it's a "two stamp" gun.

seany 6y ago

GOA and SAF have gotten much more of my money and time for the last few years. I still think there is a large gap to fill if the NRA were to go away. Mostly around outreach, training, and insurance. The other guys are getting there, but the NRA is big for a reason.

aksss 6y ago
Yes, many people forget that the NRA is more than politics. It helps range startup and operations, runs a training/safety/certification curriculum, facilitates sports/competition events, standards, and materials. These are dimensions that GOA and SAF have nothing to do with. The foundational role it has in gun culture probably makes it a juicier target than their lobbying, considering they are consistently outspent by the gun control lobby in state ballot measures each year.

technobabble 6y ago

Frontline did a very informative documentary about this circa 2009. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/gunned-down/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/gunned-down/ edit:grammar