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Not sure if you linked the right tweet or I'm missing something. This is what I see: > There is a notion that the EU is punishing us. That our exports have to

Not sure if you linked the right tweet or I'm missing something. This is what I see: > There is a notion that the EU is punishing us. That our exports have to jump through more hoops than e.g. Norwegian products. > This is what we agreed to. What we wanted. We didn't opt for the Norway model (e.g. alignment). > This is not punishment, this was our choice. That to me seems to say that this is self-inflicted, not something that the EU as a group inflicted on the UK. Not to dismiss the idea that UK is leaving the EU, not that the EU is kicking out UK. So I guess when it comes to "how much blame the EU deserves for this", it seems the answer is "none".

dariusj18 6y ago
Also, the EU has no motivation to make Brexit look like a success.
gspr 6y ago
> So I guess when it comes to "how much blame the EU deserves for this", it seems the answer is "none". I think that was the point the parent post was trying to make.
- flembat 6y ago
  The UKs friends in Europe have decided to treat the UK more like an adversary than a typical third party. So certainly the EU is also to blame.
  - Hamuko 6y ago
    Which typical parties are you referring to now?
  - kergonath 6y ago
    The EU's friends in the UK have decided to be treated more like a third country than a typical partner. Surely they are responsible for their actions?
cmmeur01 6y ago
We want to be treated as club member and reap all the perks, but we don't want to be in the club though.
- lou1306 6y ago
  And the irony is, you actually were reaping a lot of the perks while not being "in the club" under many, many respects (the €, first of all). Just a sad, sad turn of events all around.
  - that_guy_iain 6y ago
    The UK had literally the best deal in Europe. They had a rebate, they weren't a member of the schengen area, they refused the Euro, etc. They then went and got more concessions and then decided to leave. And now the hardcore Brexit people think all the negative effects they were warned about for 5+ years is the EU punishing them.
    - imtringued 6y ago
      From a pragmatic standpoint the Euro is a complete failure. I don't blame any country that decided against adopting it. However, the rest is relatively solid. There are warts and inefficiencies like in every governing body but it's does its job as an economic union.
      - jokethrowaway 6y ago
        I disagree, every added governing body is a failure in itself. I would prefer to just see a Europe-light with countries maintaining their currency and laws and just dropping trade restrictions, import taxes and need for touristic visas. I'd even extend it to any country in the world, let the customer decide if the want to buy from China or from the UK
        lou1306 6y ago
        But "dropping trade restrictions, import taxes and need for touristic visas" automatically leads to production shifting towards the countries with the loosest regulation and the lowest wages. So, you need at least a supranational regulation body that tries to make regulations uniform across the zone. But then, you need a supranational body of elected officials to jointly control that regulation body, by passing legislation. But then, you need an executive body that sets the agenda of the legislative body. And some judiciary mechanisms to handle transgressions to the laws and regulations coming from all these organs. And then... you basically end up with something pretty similar to the EU as we know it. (I'm not saying the EU is perfect, mind you. Just that they didn't create such a complex collection of institutions just "for the lulz")
kergonath 6y ago
Everything was predicted a long time ago. All the friction at the border is the inevitable consequence of the choices the successive British governments made. I like to show this as a demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agZ0xISi40E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agZ0xISi40E .

dariusj18 6y ago

Also, the EU has no motivation to make Brexit look like a success.

gspr 6y ago

> So I guess when it comes to "how much blame the EU deserves for this", it seems the answer is "none". I think that was the point the parent post was trying to make.

flembat 6y ago
The UKs friends in Europe have decided to treat the UK more like an adversary than a typical third party. So certainly the EU is also to blame.
- Hamuko 6y ago
  Which typical parties are you referring to now?
- kergonath 6y ago
  The EU's friends in the UK have decided to be treated more like a third country than a typical partner. Surely they are responsible for their actions?

cmmeur01 6y ago

We want to be treated as club member and reap all the perks, but we don't want to be in the club though.

lou1306 6y ago
And the irony is, you actually were reaping a lot of the perks while not being "in the club" under many, many respects (the €, first of all). Just a sad, sad turn of events all around.
- that_guy_iain 6y ago
  The UK had literally the best deal in Europe. They had a rebate, they weren't a member of the schengen area, they refused the Euro, etc. They then went and got more concessions and then decided to leave. And now the hardcore Brexit people think all the negative effects they were warned about for 5+ years is the EU punishing them.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    From a pragmatic standpoint the Euro is a complete failure. I don't blame any country that decided against adopting it. However, the rest is relatively solid. There are warts and inefficiencies like in every governing body but it's does its job as an economic union.
    - jokethrowaway 6y ago
      I disagree, every added governing body is a failure in itself. I would prefer to just see a Europe-light with countries maintaining their currency and laws and just dropping trade restrictions, import taxes and need for touristic visas. I'd even extend it to any country in the world, let the customer decide if the want to buy from China or from the UK
      - lou1306 6y ago
        But "dropping trade restrictions, import taxes and need for touristic visas" automatically leads to production shifting towards the countries with the loosest regulation and the lowest wages. So, you need at least a supranational regulation body that tries to make regulations uniform across the zone. But then, you need a supranational body of elected officials to jointly control that regulation body, by passing legislation. But then, you need an executive body that sets the agenda of the legislative body. And some judiciary mechanisms to handle transgressions to the laws and regulations coming from all these organs. And then... you basically end up with something pretty similar to the EU as we know it. (I'm not saying the EU is perfect, mind you. Just that they didn't create such a complex collection of institutions just "for the lulz")

kergonath 6y ago

Everything was predicted a long time ago. All the friction at the border is the inevitable consequence of the choices the successive British governments made. I like to show this as a demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agZ0xISi40E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agZ0xISi40E .