5 ms·

To the figurehead, talking shop parliament. Effectively all the power in the EU belongs to the commission, which is appointed not elected.

Dylan16807 6y ago
And who appointed them? All political systems have delegation.
kreeben 6y ago
Everything you need to know about the European Commission and more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission
cataphract 6y ago
In most European countries, people don't elect the national government directly as well; it's formed taking into account parliament elections. It is true that in the EU the appointment of the commission is a bit more removed, with the national governments involved in the choice of the President and the commissioners, but in any case the European Parliament must still approve the commission.
YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
EU Comissioners are proposed by the Council of the European Union, a body composed of EU member state ministers, themselves directly elected by the citizens of their respective states in national elections. Appointment of Comissioners follows the suggestions of national governments.
- tom_mellior 6y ago
  I don't know of any EU country in which ministers are elected as ministers. Many are elected as MPs and then appointed ministers, but this is typically not a requirement, and you can easily have unelected ministers. Even if 100% of all ministers were always elected as MPs, you couldn't just argue "was elected for position X, must therefore automatically be considered democratically legitimized for position Y".
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
    >> Many are elected as MPs and then appointed ministers, but this is typically not a requirement, and you can easily have unelected ministers. OK, I don't know that. Is that the case in EU countries? If so, which ones? Anyway I didn't say that ministers are elected as ministers, but to my knowledge for someone to be appointed a minister they must be elected into parliament. Again, if that's not the case please explain.
    - tom_mellior 6y ago
      > Anyway I didn't say that ministers are elected as ministers, but to my knowledge for someone to be appointed a minister they must be elected into parliament. That might be the case in certain countries, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_the_United_Kingdom says: "In the United Kingdom's parliamentary system, the executive is not separate from the legislature, since Cabinet members are drawn from Parliament." It's not the case in other countries. Recent examples from Italy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monti_Cabinet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monti_Cabinet and Austria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bierlein_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bierlein_government. Admittedly these are interim governments formed entirely from non-politicians, so a special case. But there are also examples of individual non-party people being ministers in "normal" governments. Again Austria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kern_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kern_government (the "Independent"s were never MPs). Of course this is rare, since usually there is an expectation of party members to get the posts.
      - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
        Are you sure this is the case, about the Austrian Independents? It's not very clear from the wikipedia articles on the persons and on the institutions. In any case, it looks like the Austrian ministers are figurheads without real political power, or so I gather from the relevant artice on wikipedia: Austrian presidents gladly accept that their role is that of figureheads. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Austria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Austria But I may not be reading all this carefully enough. Still, this seems to be something ... peculiar to Austria?
soufron 6y ago
Euh, no it doesn't...

Dylan16807 6y ago

And who appointed them? All political systems have delegation.

kreeben 6y ago

Everything you need to know about the European Commission and more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission

cataphract 6y ago

In most European countries, people don't elect the national government directly as well; it's formed taking into account parliament elections. It is true that in the EU the appointment of the commission is a bit more removed, with the national governments involved in the choice of the President and the commissioners, but in any case the European Parliament must still approve the commission.

YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago

EU Comissioners are proposed by the Council of the European Union, a body composed of EU member state ministers, themselves directly elected by the citizens of their respective states in national elections. Appointment of Comissioners follows the suggestions of national governments.

tom_mellior 6y ago
I don't know of any EU country in which ministers are elected as ministers. Many are elected as MPs and then appointed ministers, but this is typically not a requirement, and you can easily have unelected ministers. Even if 100% of all ministers were always elected as MPs, you couldn't just argue "was elected for position X, must therefore automatically be considered democratically legitimized for position Y".
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
  >> Many are elected as MPs and then appointed ministers, but this is typically not a requirement, and you can easily have unelected ministers. OK, I don't know that. Is that the case in EU countries? If so, which ones? Anyway I didn't say that ministers are elected as ministers, but to my knowledge for someone to be appointed a minister they must be elected into parliament. Again, if that's not the case please explain.
  - tom_mellior 6y ago
    > Anyway I didn't say that ministers are elected as ministers, but to my knowledge for someone to be appointed a minister they must be elected into parliament. That might be the case in certain countries, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_the_United_Kingdom says: "In the United Kingdom's parliamentary system, the executive is not separate from the legislature, since Cabinet members are drawn from Parliament." It's not the case in other countries. Recent examples from Italy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monti_Cabinet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monti_Cabinet and Austria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bierlein_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bierlein_government. Admittedly these are interim governments formed entirely from non-politicians, so a special case. But there are also examples of individual non-party people being ministers in "normal" governments. Again Austria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kern_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kern_government (the "Independent"s were never MPs). Of course this is rare, since usually there is an expectation of party members to get the posts.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
      Are you sure this is the case, about the Austrian Independents? It's not very clear from the wikipedia articles on the persons and on the institutions. In any case, it looks like the Austrian ministers are figurheads without real political power, or so I gather from the relevant artice on wikipedia: Austrian presidents gladly accept that their role is that of figureheads. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Austria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Austria But I may not be reading all this carefully enough. Still, this seems to be something ... peculiar to Austria?

soufron 6y ago

Euh, no it doesn't...