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Great job. Citizens like you will get involved when the cops pay attention. New York used to be very, very bad. People thought that was just life in the big
by stretchwithme 15y ago
Great job. Citizens like you will get involved when the cops pay attention.
New York used to be very, very bad. People thought that was just life in the big city. Then they decided to maintain order, even painting over graffiti as soon as they found it, and enforced even minor laws. The criminal element perceived that bad behavior would not be tolerated. Malcolm Gladwell describes it in Tipping Point.
- hugh3 15y agoThe second most remarkable thing about New York's zero-tolerance policing is how well it worked. The most remarkable thing about it is how few other places have tried it since.
- light3 15y agoIs it really expensive to implement?
- stretchwithme 15y agoI don't know how expensive enforcing laws is, but crime is really expensive. It destroys lives, property values, tourism and quality of life. When people have control over whether laws are enforced where they live, they usually choose to enforce them rather than let everything go to hell.
- Joeri 15y agoThey did it without a budget increase. The book "The Blue Ocean" describes the strategy. IIRC, they shifted resources from other kinds of crime-fighting to combat visible crime.
- adolph 15y agoSometimes expense is a matter of resource allocation (my apologies for bringing the "drug war" into this thread).
- stretchwithme 15y agoI suspect there is more crime when resources are more focused on violating rights than on protecting them.
- Duff 15y agoYes it is very expensive. There are about 40,000 policemen in NYC. Then again, there were lots of cops in old days too -- but they weren't managed very well. Back in the 80's, it was crazy. I grew up in a good neighborhood in Queens. The NYPD hid the drunks and incompetents in precients that served safer neighborhoods in those days. One day, a car almost hit my friends playing stickball in the street, then proceeded to go down the block and empty an Uzi into a guy at a bus stop. (Life Lesson: Don't piss off Columbian drug dealers.) So my dad calls the cops. He dials 911, and the cop asks "Are they still shooting?" and hangs up when my dad says "Uh, no". He ended up pulling the fire department call box out on the street, and the firemen called for cops over the radio.
- sitkack 15y agoIt is also a great excuse for podunk "Great Communicator" loving sherifs to implement American Fascism. As much as I love how safe NYC is, I don't want it to turn into Singapore.
- askar_yu 15y agowhat is it with Singapore? <br> I am curious.
- mjallday 15y agoit's safe to the point of being sterile. (this is a personal opinion, not a fact)
- Anti-Ratfish 15y agoDeath sentence for minor infraction. Only minor exaggeration. Oh, an your vote is numbered, careful who you vote for.
- arethuza 15y agoYou're not alone - if I had to pick one word to describe Singapore it would also be "sterile".
- stretchwithme 15y agoThey still cane people there. Like smart ass American kids that steal street signs.
- hugh3 15y agoI actually think that's not a bad idea! I want to read this book: http://chronicle.com/article/In-Defense-of-Flogging/127208/ http://chronicle.com/article/In-Defense-of-Flogging/127208/
- JoachimSchipper 15y ago
- Travis 15y agoBroken windows theory has its share of criticism. In Tipping Point (or maybe it was one of his others, or freakonomics), they are able to connect the drop in crime rates with both the legalization of abortion and/or the banishment of leaded gasoline. Point being, it's nearly impossible to separate causality in sociological phenomenon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#Criticism_of_the_theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#Criticism...
- TrevorBurnham 15y agoIt was Freakonomics that theorized that abortion was the cause of the drop in crime (which occurred nationwide as it was happening in NYC, though not to the same degree). Gladwell has debated with the authors of Freakonomics (primarily the economist Steven Levitt) about this. See http://gladwell.typepad.com/gladwellcom/2006/03/thoughts_on_fre.html http://gladwell.typepad.com/gladwellcom/2006/03/thoughts_on_..., http://www.freakonomics.com/2006/03/09/malcolm-gladwell-on-the-freakonomics-paradox/ http://www.freakonomics.com/2006/03/09/malcolm-gladwell-on-t..., http://gladwell.typepad.com/gladwellcom/2006/03/levitt_and_dubn.html http://gladwell.typepad.com/gladwellcom/2006/03/levitt_and_d...
- stretchwithme 15y agoThe changes made in New York bore fruit within a few years. The trends you're referring to take decades. And don't seem to have worked in Oakland.
- Produce 15y agoI think that zero-tolerance policing does absolutely nothing to tackle crime, it only drives it deeper underground, or to other places. In order to stop a weed from growing, you do not cut it whenever it grows past an arbitrary point, you take away it's food, light and water instead. Effectively and permanently tackling crime involves a similar approach - address the root issues and you no longer have crime. So what causes people to steal? They are poor, they want more than they currently have because what they have is not enough. If you want them to stop stealing, then society must become fairer. As it stands, resources are allocated through a sort of popularity contest. Those at the top of the social popularity ranking get the most. Why do people kill and fight? For respect. Society looks down on the poor, it avoids them, laughs at them and criticizes them for being where they are without having walked in their shoes. Want people to stop being so violent? Show them some love and put the batons away. Not to mention the double standard of having a bunch of hired thugs (the police) keeping us safe from a bunch of hired thugs (gangsters). I don't want any thugs in my neighborhood.