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Putin’s Once-Scorned Vaccine Is Now a Favorite in Pandemic Fight

9 points by mepian 6y ago

Daishiman 6y ago
Let's stop calling it Putin's vaccine. Call it what it is: Gamaleya's vaccine, a research institute that has a century of science under its belt and successful track record of breakthrough microbiology and medical research.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  It should also be noted that their vaccine candidate was ready in May, which only adds to the achievement. They also developed an Ebola vaccine in 2017. Clearly one of the very best teams in the world.
  - notfromhere 6y ago
    It was scorned because they basically skipped phase 3 testing and started injecting people. The fact that it worked after the fact Doesn’t make it any less reckless.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      Testing using the customer is pretty much standard in software these days. Did they monitor responses in the vaccinated public? If so, it was a kind of phase 3.
      - notfromhere 6y ago
        When someone’s app goes haywire, it’s a little different than a vaccine going bad.
        JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Depends on the app. And a 'vaccine going bad' can just be 'didn't help'. Not all apocalyptic outcomes. In fact, adverse reactions have already been tested for in previous phases. Phase III is all about effectiveness. In a pandemic it seems rational to do this testing quickly. Its defensible to do it in public trials.
        notfromhere 6y ago
        Russia skipped Phase 3 and went straight to injecting the public
        JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        ...which would then either work or fail. But not cause massive problems otherwise. That's what Phase 3 is all about - testing effectiveness, not avoiding side effects.
      - amazingman 6y ago
        Would it even be possible to properly staff a monitoring operation for “kind of phase 3” testing on the general public?
    - mytailorisrich 6y ago
      Let's be honest, a large portion of the scorn was because it was Russian. When they published results of the first trials the reactions were that they couldn't be trusted because it was Russian. It was not completely unreasonable but they was also certainly a part of superiority complex and of looking down on Russia. I don't think that they acted recklessly. In a critical emergency situation you need to be willing to take a level of risk and to balance that risk against the cost of not doing anything or of delaying doing something. From what they knew a priori about the type of vaccine (coronavirii are known and that's also what made development of vaccines quick) and the positive first trial phases they made a decision. I don't think it was a particularly risky decision but still they made it.
      - notfromhere 6y ago
        They skipped phase 3 after releasing initial trial results on like 75 people. It’s perfectly reasonable to be suspicious of a little-tested vaccine from a government that has a lot of incentive to pad the results for regime stability.
  - acdha 6y ago
    It’s definitely an accomplishment but that wasn't a key differentiator: Moderna’s vaccine candidate was ready in February and Pfizer’s timing was similar, too. The difference was that they did the required large scale phased testing and I’m sure that will be the subject of medical ethics discussions for decades. One of the really interesting questions would be how you could approve something like the mRNA delivery mechanism independent from the targeted protein to allow a quick response, as they’re doing now with tweaks targeting new COVID variants.
- anewaccount2021 6y ago
  but the NYT told me it would turn me into a qanon zombie
5tefan 6y ago
Horrible headline. Article itself not much better. Even if Russia literally saves lives this shortsighted bashing goes on and on and on... This vaccine is a great achievement.
- sergefaguet 6y ago
  I have long ago stopped taking the western media seriously when it comes to reporting on Russia. And on many other topics.
Proven 6y ago
Good for them! Hungary didn't listen to the EU and took advantage of this Russian vaccine. The UK took care of the problem on their own, while the EU has mounted a laughable, 3rd world-level response. Of course - don't expect any resignations there and that's a good thing because the incompetent euro-bureaucrats could get promoted to a higher post in their national government. Isn't it strange how "best" places to do business came up dead last in the race to invent and make a product that saves lives. Secret sauce: the European Union. Congrats to the scientists and manufacturers involved in Sputnik.

9 points by mepian 6y ago

Let's stop calling it Putin's vaccine. Call it what it is: Gamaleya's vaccine, a research institute that has a century of science under its belt and successful track record of breakthrough microbiology and medical research.

mytailorisrich 6y ago
It should also be noted that their vaccine candidate was ready in May, which only adds to the achievement. They also developed an Ebola vaccine in 2017. Clearly one of the very best teams in the world.
- notfromhere 6y ago
  It was scorned because they basically skipped phase 3 testing and started injecting people. The fact that it worked after the fact Doesn’t make it any less reckless.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    Testing using the customer is pretty much standard in software these days. Did they monitor responses in the vaccinated public? If so, it was a kind of phase 3.
    - notfromhere 6y ago
      When someone’s app goes haywire, it’s a little different than a vaccine going bad.
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Depends on the app. And a 'vaccine going bad' can just be 'didn't help'. Not all apocalyptic outcomes. In fact, adverse reactions have already been tested for in previous phases. Phase III is all about effectiveness. In a pandemic it seems rational to do this testing quickly. Its defensible to do it in public trials.
        notfromhere 6y ago
        Russia skipped Phase 3 and went straight to injecting the public
        JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        ...which would then either work or fail. But not cause massive problems otherwise. That's what Phase 3 is all about - testing effectiveness, not avoiding side effects.
    - amazingman 6y ago
      Would it even be possible to properly staff a monitoring operation for “kind of phase 3” testing on the general public?
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    Let's be honest, a large portion of the scorn was because it was Russian. When they published results of the first trials the reactions were that they couldn't be trusted because it was Russian. It was not completely unreasonable but they was also certainly a part of superiority complex and of looking down on Russia. I don't think that they acted recklessly. In a critical emergency situation you need to be willing to take a level of risk and to balance that risk against the cost of not doing anything or of delaying doing something. From what they knew a priori about the type of vaccine (coronavirii are known and that's also what made development of vaccines quick) and the positive first trial phases they made a decision. I don't think it was a particularly risky decision but still they made it.
    - notfromhere 6y ago
      They skipped phase 3 after releasing initial trial results on like 75 people. It’s perfectly reasonable to be suspicious of a little-tested vaccine from a government that has a lot of incentive to pad the results for regime stability.
- acdha 6y ago
  It’s definitely an accomplishment but that wasn't a key differentiator: Moderna’s vaccine candidate was ready in February and Pfizer’s timing was similar, too. The difference was that they did the required large scale phased testing and I’m sure that will be the subject of medical ethics discussions for decades. One of the really interesting questions would be how you could approve something like the mRNA delivery mechanism independent from the targeted protein to allow a quick response, as they’re doing now with tweaks targeting new COVID variants.
anewaccount2021 6y ago
but the NYT told me it would turn me into a qanon zombie

5tefan 6y ago

Horrible headline. Article itself not much better. Even if Russia literally saves lives this shortsighted bashing goes on and on and on... This vaccine is a great achievement.

sergefaguet 6y ago
I have long ago stopped taking the western media seriously when it comes to reporting on Russia. And on many other topics.

Proven 6y ago

Good for them! Hungary didn't listen to the EU and took advantage of this Russian vaccine. The UK took care of the problem on their own, while the EU has mounted a laughable, 3rd world-level response. Of course - don't expect any resignations there and that's a good thing because the incompetent euro-bureaucrats could get promoted to a higher post in their national government. Isn't it strange how "best" places to do business came up dead last in the race to invent and make a product that saves lives. Secret sauce: the European Union. Congrats to the scientists and manufacturers involved in Sputnik.