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Case in point I guess. It is kind of amazing how one of the most important recent technological developments has been written off for more than a decade by the

Case in point I guess. It is kind of amazing how one of the most important recent technological developments has been written off for more than a decade by the users of this site. Same with TypeScript for a long time as well, and then there was a magical turning point somehow that the entire zerg all of a sudden discovered static typing was actually useful. For one of the best sites for discussing the latest happenings in the computer software world, crypto has somehow been consistently rejected as useless when it beats other stores of value in almost every metric. Crypto has value simply because it is better at storing value than the mediums that came before it.

TylerE 6y ago
There is nothing anyone could say that would convince you aren't on the OneTruePath(tm) is there?
- trixie_ 6y ago
  I would love to have an intelligent debate with you. To respond to your original post. Many people, myself included, find crypto an easier, faster, cheaper way to send large amounts of money versus ACH, wire transfers and western union.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
matkoniecz 6y ago
> beats other stores of value in almost every metric. Which metrics you selected so crypto beats following in "almost every metric"? - real estate - gold - $ in cash - $ in a bank account - stocks
- trixie_ 6y ago
  Metrics as in how easy is it to store and send, how resistant is it to inflation and manipulation. - Land - Can't send it. - Gold - Physical so more difficult to store, secure, send, and verify. - Cash - Easy to manipulate by the government. How many trillions printed for coronavirus? I wouldn't hold too much of it. - Stocks - Cant send it. More shares can be created by the board of directors. Crypto is made to do one thing - store value, and do it well.
  - sumedh 6y ago
    > Crypto is made to do one thing - store value, and do it well. Does it really do it well when your "investment" can fluctuate between $5000 to $40K?
  - quickthrower2 6y ago
    Well bitcoin in particular but some crypto is inflationary also
  - umanwizard 6y ago
    Well, technically you can own a gold ETF rather than physical, and whenever you want to send value to someone, sell it and wire them the money (free on Fidelity and takes on the order of as long as a few Bitcoin confirmations). This is not too different in effect from being able to “send gold”. Anyway... despite the theoretical limitations of cash, hard currencies in practice have proven much, much more stable than Bitcoin. There hasn’t been hyperinflation in any of the major hard currencies (USD, CNY, GBP, EUR/D-Mark, CHF) since the invention of the fiat system. You can argue that cash can be manipulated and is therefore a worse store of value than Bitcoin but it simply isn’t backed up by concrete evidence in reality
    - matkoniecz 6y ago
      There was no hyperinflation, but inflation is high enough to matter. Still, overall damage seems far lower than risks of mistakes, hacks, crashed and scams overrunning crypto. Maybe it is not true for super experts, but for average person loses on inflation will be far lower than overall damage from various dangers present in BTC and other.
  - matkoniecz 6y ago
    So for example land is counterexample to claim that "crypto beats other stores of value in almost every metric."? Especially given that you can sell it for something used locally and send that? (there is no need to store value and send something using the same method).
woodruffw 6y ago
> Crypto has value simply because it is better at storing value than the mediums that came before it. Is this a serious claim? The last one and a half months have seen extraordinary speculation in cryptocurrency markets, even by the standards of cryptocurrencies. Lots of wealth is being produced; relatively little is being stored.
- trixie_ 6y ago
  It's in the news everyday. Huge investment firms diversifying into crypto. So yes, value is being stored. The market cap of cypto has been rising exponentially - exactly because it is a good store of value. Which means easy to store, and highly resistant to manipulation and inflation.
  - woodruffw 6y ago
    > Huge investment firms diversifying into crypto. So yes, value is being stored. Something being a desirable investment vehicle usually makes it an undesirable store of value: a store of value should be stable and predictable, not subject to significant changes in any direction. > Which means easy to store, and highly resistant to manipulation and inflation. These are, again, negative qualities in a store of value. A good store of value is inflates and deflates exactly as much as required to retain its backing value. Inflation means loss of value; deflation represents a liquidity risk when exiting the asset. More generally, this is an indictment of the cryptocurrency community's basic financial literacy. You can't just call a speculative instrument a "store of value" because every who bought into it in the past two months has seen a positive return; that's just not what it is.
    - jerrymiller 6y ago
      Case in point still. The contradictions you make are astounding. What's more astounding is that you are not even noticing them. > Huge investment firms diversifying into crypto > this is an indictment of the cryptocurrency community's basic financial literacy I suggest that maybe it's you who lacks basic financial (and econ) literacy, not investment firms or the "cryptocurrency community" > You can't just call a speculative instrument a "store of value" because every who bought into it in the past two months has seen a positive return No, everyone who bought BTC at _any point in the past_ and didn't sell are seeing positive returns. This is the definition of a good store of value. You are conflating SoV properties with volatility. They are orthogonal. SoV is a long-term play.
umanwizard 6y ago
Low volatility is a pretty important metric for stores of value. By that metric almost anything other than GME shares is better than cryptocurrency: cash in any hard currency, gold, silver, luxury watches, ...
- trixie_ 6y ago
  I guess remind me in 10 years and we'll see how returns on crypto compares to 'stocks, hard currency, gold, silver, luxury watches' Funny how all of those things are not supply constrained, so they seem to be at a disadvantage from the start. But we'll see.
  - umanwizard 6y ago
    I didn’t mention “possibility of high returns” as a metric. I said “low volatility”.
  - optimalsolver 6y ago
    >I guess remind me in 10 years and we'll see how returns on crypto compares to 'stocks, hard currency, gold, silver, luxury watches' You're literally supporting the argument of the person you're replying to without even realizing it. Disproportionately high returns indicates a highly volatile asset, and it's just as likely to go the other way, resulting in staggering losses. These are not markers of a good, long-term storage asset class.
  - alphabettsy 6y ago
    I think you misunderstand a store of value. Extremely volatility is not a positive characteristic. Would you want to be paid in a currency that regularly changes value 5-10% day to day?
- AgentME 6y ago
  There are decentralized cryptocurrencies that have achieved low volatility, such as DAI. I don't think it's ever gotten more than a couple percent from its $1 target price since being created. (I assume it almost never gets talked about because there's no profit from investing in it and hyping it to others.)
underwater 6y ago
TypeScript was about bringing traditional, proven, approaches to a trendy but immature language. That's exactly the opposite of Bitcoin.

TylerE 6y ago

There is nothing anyone could say that would convince you aren't on the OneTruePath(tm) is there?

trixie_ 6y ago
I would love to have an intelligent debate with you. To respond to your original post. Many people, myself included, find crypto an easier, faster, cheaper way to send large amounts of money versus ACH, wire transfers and western union.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

matkoniecz 6y ago

> beats other stores of value in almost every metric. Which metrics you selected so crypto beats following in "almost every metric"? - real estate - gold - $ in cash - $ in a bank account - stocks

trixie_ 6y ago
Metrics as in how easy is it to store and send, how resistant is it to inflation and manipulation. - Land - Can't send it. - Gold - Physical so more difficult to store, secure, send, and verify. - Cash - Easy to manipulate by the government. How many trillions printed for coronavirus? I wouldn't hold too much of it. - Stocks - Cant send it. More shares can be created by the board of directors. Crypto is made to do one thing - store value, and do it well.
- sumedh 6y ago
  > Crypto is made to do one thing - store value, and do it well. Does it really do it well when your "investment" can fluctuate between $5000 to $40K?
- quickthrower2 6y ago
  Well bitcoin in particular but some crypto is inflationary also
- umanwizard 6y ago
  Well, technically you can own a gold ETF rather than physical, and whenever you want to send value to someone, sell it and wire them the money (free on Fidelity and takes on the order of as long as a few Bitcoin confirmations). This is not too different in effect from being able to “send gold”. Anyway... despite the theoretical limitations of cash, hard currencies in practice have proven much, much more stable than Bitcoin. There hasn’t been hyperinflation in any of the major hard currencies (USD, CNY, GBP, EUR/D-Mark, CHF) since the invention of the fiat system. You can argue that cash can be manipulated and is therefore a worse store of value than Bitcoin but it simply isn’t backed up by concrete evidence in reality
  - matkoniecz 6y ago
    There was no hyperinflation, but inflation is high enough to matter. Still, overall damage seems far lower than risks of mistakes, hacks, crashed and scams overrunning crypto. Maybe it is not true for super experts, but for average person loses on inflation will be far lower than overall damage from various dangers present in BTC and other.
- matkoniecz 6y ago
  So for example land is counterexample to claim that "crypto beats other stores of value in almost every metric."? Especially given that you can sell it for something used locally and send that? (there is no need to store value and send something using the same method).

woodruffw 6y ago

> Crypto has value simply because it is better at storing value than the mediums that came before it. Is this a serious claim? The last one and a half months have seen extraordinary speculation in cryptocurrency markets, even by the standards of cryptocurrencies. Lots of wealth is being produced; relatively little is being stored.

trixie_ 6y ago
It's in the news everyday. Huge investment firms diversifying into crypto. So yes, value is being stored. The market cap of cypto has been rising exponentially - exactly because it is a good store of value. Which means easy to store, and highly resistant to manipulation and inflation.
- woodruffw 6y ago
  > Huge investment firms diversifying into crypto. So yes, value is being stored. Something being a desirable investment vehicle usually makes it an undesirable store of value: a store of value should be stable and predictable, not subject to significant changes in any direction. > Which means easy to store, and highly resistant to manipulation and inflation. These are, again, negative qualities in a store of value. A good store of value is inflates and deflates exactly as much as required to retain its backing value. Inflation means loss of value; deflation represents a liquidity risk when exiting the asset. More generally, this is an indictment of the cryptocurrency community's basic financial literacy. You can't just call a speculative instrument a "store of value" because every who bought into it in the past two months has seen a positive return; that's just not what it is.
  - jerrymiller 6y ago
    Case in point still. The contradictions you make are astounding. What's more astounding is that you are not even noticing them. > Huge investment firms diversifying into crypto > this is an indictment of the cryptocurrency community's basic financial literacy I suggest that maybe it's you who lacks basic financial (and econ) literacy, not investment firms or the "cryptocurrency community" > You can't just call a speculative instrument a "store of value" because every who bought into it in the past two months has seen a positive return No, everyone who bought BTC at _any point in the past_ and didn't sell are seeing positive returns. This is the definition of a good store of value. You are conflating SoV properties with volatility. They are orthogonal. SoV is a long-term play.

umanwizard 6y ago

Low volatility is a pretty important metric for stores of value. By that metric almost anything other than GME shares is better than cryptocurrency: cash in any hard currency, gold, silver, luxury watches, ...

trixie_ 6y ago
I guess remind me in 10 years and we'll see how returns on crypto compares to 'stocks, hard currency, gold, silver, luxury watches' Funny how all of those things are not supply constrained, so they seem to be at a disadvantage from the start. But we'll see.
- umanwizard 6y ago
  I didn’t mention “possibility of high returns” as a metric. I said “low volatility”.
- optimalsolver 6y ago
  >I guess remind me in 10 years and we'll see how returns on crypto compares to 'stocks, hard currency, gold, silver, luxury watches' You're literally supporting the argument of the person you're replying to without even realizing it. Disproportionately high returns indicates a highly volatile asset, and it's just as likely to go the other way, resulting in staggering losses. These are not markers of a good, long-term storage asset class.
- alphabettsy 6y ago
  I think you misunderstand a store of value. Extremely volatility is not a positive characteristic. Would you want to be paid in a currency that regularly changes value 5-10% day to day?
AgentME 6y ago
There are decentralized cryptocurrencies that have achieved low volatility, such as DAI. I don't think it's ever gotten more than a couple percent from its $1 target price since being created. (I assume it almost never gets talked about because there's no profit from investing in it and hyping it to others.)

underwater 6y ago

TypeScript was about bringing traditional, proven, approaches to a trendy but immature language. That's exactly the opposite of Bitcoin.