4 ms·

Some Arabic and Persian accounts of the export of tin from Cornwall

62 points by Thevet 6y ago

JoeDaDude 6y ago
The complex at Tintagel, from where British tin exports took place, gets the archeological treatment in this Nova episode: https://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/king-arthurs-lost-kingdom-full-episode/4094/ https://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/king-arthurs-lost-kingdom-f...
- trestenhortz 6y ago
  Presumably the name “TINtagel” relates to tin somehow?
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    Why? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintagel#Toponymy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintagel#Toponymy doesn't even mention that as a theory.
  - smogcutter 6y ago
    I was curious so dug a little. A quick google surprisingly doesn’t really turn up reliable looking sources, but it seems like the answer is no. Most likely either Cornish or Norman French in origin, unrelated to German-derived “tin”.
  - PeterWhittaker 6y ago
    It seems not. Tintagel apparently means “fort by the neck of the land” ([1]), while the etymology of tin seems to be from a proto-Germanic word for the metal. [1] https://oldsomerset2.wordpress.com/2016/01/23/whats-in-a-name-tintagel/ https://oldsomerset2.wordpress.com/2016/01/23/whats-in-a-nam... [2] https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/tin https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/tin
  - blodorn 6y ago
    A happy little accident.
- doctorfoo 6y ago
  Tintagel hackers represent! *tumbleweed
contingencies 6y ago
Its inhabitants bring the precious metals of these mines to the land of France, and exchange them for wine. Little has changed in 750 years, then.
- trestenhortz 6y ago
  Priorities are clear.
senkora 6y ago
It’s weird and pretty neat hearing England described in the kind of vague, exotic terms that I’m used to hearing from like the Arabian Nights.
- elefanten 6y ago
  When Orientalism gazes in the mirror, it sees Occidentalism.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
Whether earlier Islamic ceramics using tin-opacified glazes similarly depended on tin from southwestern England is a matter of speculation, but it is interesting to observe that the earliest such glazes seem to have their origins in Egypt in the eighth century AD, which is perhaps suggestive, given that tin seems to have been known as 'the Brittanic metal' in Egypt only a century earlier. This stood out for me -- that tin was apparently known as the Brittanic metal. Linguistic hints like that are sometimes excellent clues to historic events, assuming this is accurate and all that. It suggests that Britain was the sole or primary source of tin to the region for a while. Makes me curious about other aspects of the history of metal production, metal trade, etc.
- divbzero 6y ago
  Made me curious too: Apparently Britain indeed became the primary source of tin to the region after the 3rd century AD as Iberian mines became exhausted. [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_sources_and_trade_in_ancient_times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_sources_and_trade_in_ancie...
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    From your link: Tin is a relatively rare element in the Earth's crust, with about two parts per million (ppm), compared to iron with 50,000 ppm, copper with 70 ppm, lead with 16 ppm, arsenic with 5 ppm, silver with 0.1 ppm, and gold with 0.005 ppm (Valera & Valera 2003, p. 10). Ancient sources of tin were therefore rare, and the metal usually had to be traded over very long distances to meet demand in areas which lacked tin deposits. Also: Archaeological importance The importance of tin to the success of Bronze Age cultures and the scarcity of the resource offers a glimpse into that time period's trade and cultural interactions, and has therefore been the focus of intense archaeological studies. That's some good stuff. Thanks. For those who don't readily recognize the word Iberian, that's the peninsula where Spain and Portugal are. (Maybe that's just me. Maybe it's not.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Peninsula https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Peninsula
    - 6y ago
mytailorisrich 6y ago
The trade of tin from Cornwall dates from prehistory and is documented since Ancient times. It used to transit down the Rhône River to the Mediterranean. See early travels to Britain from Greek explorers [1]. Incidentally Pytheas was from Marseille, near the Rhône delta and thus probably a hub for Cornish tin. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas
slim 6y ago
One of these is the form of tin called raṣāṣ. Its mines are known in many places. The first is that from Farangistān. In Farangistān it is cast in the form of pieces and stamped with a Farangī stamp as prevention against adulteration...(6) raṣāṣ is Lead not Tin (in arabic at least) and it is indeed to this day used for seals to prevent adulteration
- divbzero 6y ago
  I wonder if this is confusion on the part of the translator or the original writer. The Latin word for tin stannum (hence Sn on the periodic table) originally referred to an alloy of lead and silver before the meaning shifted to refer to tin. Mistaking one element for another seems quite plausible without access to modern chemistry.

62 points by Thevet 6y ago

The complex at Tintagel, from where British tin exports took place, gets the archeological treatment in this Nova episode: https://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/king-arthurs-lost-kingdom-full-episode/4094/ https://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/king-arthurs-lost-kingdom-f...

trestenhortz 6y ago
Presumably the name “TINtagel” relates to tin somehow?
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  Why? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintagel#Toponymy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintagel#Toponymy doesn't even mention that as a theory.
- smogcutter 6y ago
  I was curious so dug a little. A quick google surprisingly doesn’t really turn up reliable looking sources, but it seems like the answer is no. Most likely either Cornish or Norman French in origin, unrelated to German-derived “tin”.
- PeterWhittaker 6y ago
  It seems not. Tintagel apparently means “fort by the neck of the land” ([1]), while the etymology of tin seems to be from a proto-Germanic word for the metal. [1] https://oldsomerset2.wordpress.com/2016/01/23/whats-in-a-name-tintagel/ https://oldsomerset2.wordpress.com/2016/01/23/whats-in-a-nam... [2] https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/tin https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/tin
- blodorn 6y ago
  A happy little accident.
doctorfoo 6y ago
Tintagel hackers represent! *tumbleweed

contingencies 6y ago

Its inhabitants bring the precious metals of these mines to the land of France, and exchange them for wine. Little has changed in 750 years, then.

trestenhortz 6y ago
Priorities are clear.

senkora 6y ago

It’s weird and pretty neat hearing England described in the kind of vague, exotic terms that I’m used to hearing from like the Arabian Nights.

elefanten 6y ago
When Orientalism gazes in the mirror, it sees Occidentalism.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

Whether earlier Islamic ceramics using tin-opacified glazes similarly depended on tin from southwestern England is a matter of speculation, but it is interesting to observe that the earliest such glazes seem to have their origins in Egypt in the eighth century AD, which is perhaps suggestive, given that tin seems to have been known as 'the Brittanic metal' in Egypt only a century earlier. This stood out for me -- that tin was apparently known as the Brittanic metal. Linguistic hints like that are sometimes excellent clues to historic events, assuming this is accurate and all that. It suggests that Britain was the sole or primary source of tin to the region for a while. Makes me curious about other aspects of the history of metal production, metal trade, etc.

divbzero 6y ago
Made me curious too: Apparently Britain indeed became the primary source of tin to the region after the 3rd century AD as Iberian mines became exhausted. [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_sources_and_trade_in_ancient_times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_sources_and_trade_in_ancie...
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  From your link: Tin is a relatively rare element in the Earth's crust, with about two parts per million (ppm), compared to iron with 50,000 ppm, copper with 70 ppm, lead with 16 ppm, arsenic with 5 ppm, silver with 0.1 ppm, and gold with 0.005 ppm (Valera & Valera 2003, p. 10). Ancient sources of tin were therefore rare, and the metal usually had to be traded over very long distances to meet demand in areas which lacked tin deposits. Also: Archaeological importance The importance of tin to the success of Bronze Age cultures and the scarcity of the resource offers a glimpse into that time period's trade and cultural interactions, and has therefore been the focus of intense archaeological studies. That's some good stuff. Thanks. For those who don't readily recognize the word Iberian, that's the peninsula where Spain and Portugal are. (Maybe that's just me. Maybe it's not.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Peninsula https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Peninsula
  - 6y ago

mytailorisrich 6y ago

The trade of tin from Cornwall dates from prehistory and is documented since Ancient times. It used to transit down the Rhône River to the Mediterranean. See early travels to Britain from Greek explorers [1]. Incidentally Pytheas was from Marseille, near the Rhône delta and thus probably a hub for Cornish tin. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas

slim 6y ago

One of these is the form of tin called raṣāṣ. Its mines are known in many places. The first is that from Farangistān. In Farangistān it is cast in the form of pieces and stamped with a Farangī stamp as prevention against adulteration...(6) raṣāṣ is Lead not Tin (in arabic at least) and it is indeed to this day used for seals to prevent adulteration

divbzero 6y ago
I wonder if this is confusion on the part of the translator or the original writer. The Latin word for tin stannum (hence Sn on the periodic table) originally referred to an alloy of lead and silver before the meaning shifted to refer to tin. Mistaking one element for another seems quite plausible without access to modern chemistry.