13 ms·

Even before Covid-19, nightclubs were struggling

119 points by prostoalex 6y ago

golemiprague 6y ago
Clubs were a place of hedonism and cultural disruption but these days with all the me too and victorian morals the only ones who can still enjoy themselves are gays who get excused for whatever behaviour and maybe some minorities who couldn't care less about anything. Add tinder to the mix and there is no reason for a straight white person to risk their reputation or even freedom in a club. The other problem is music which used to be part of the counter culture and social movements but now has no cultural meaning and is pure entertainment. People used to define themselves by the type of music they listen to and the relevant cloths and attitude but it seems like in some ways it moved towards gaming, these days the games you play define you more than the music. It is not without reason that two of the most disrupting sub cultures had something to do with gaming, gamergate and gamestop.
Triv888 6y ago
they aren't struggling too much around here even during covid... still a bunch of tourists in FL
stuaxo 6y ago
Lets not forget gentrification. In the bit of London near London bridge, there were 3 clubs, (a large, medium and small one), that have all gone due to gentrification. Now there are no places doing proper music + DJ nights. What is there now? There's the odd late night cocktail place thats moved in, but nowhere to go and dance + listen to loud music. EDIT: The only hope I see for the future, is that lots of people are moving out of cities (700k out of London in this year alone). As buildings empty out, there may once again be landlords willing to rent out places to be music venues. It depends on whether foreign money continues to buy up all the properties in London, landbanking at the expense of homes and culture.
Capira 6y ago
It's misleading to blame "the pandemic" when in fact the lockdowns have left businesses fighting for their survival. In particular because many of the world's most renown epidemiologists (such as Stanford Professor Ioannidis) keep warning that lockdowns are devastating because they cause much more harm than good. In spite of that, our governments keep pushing for more strict lockdowns. Lockdowns manipulate markets to an extreme extend. The profits of a few mega-corporations are skyrocketing while small businesses are dying like flies. It feels like we're forgetting that diversified markets are essential for democracy.
- The_rationalist 6y ago
  Source?
  - Capira 6y ago
    Epidemiologists from Stanford, Harvard and Oxford demand: "Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal." [1] Stanford study: "we find no clear, significant beneficial effect of [lockdowns] on case growth in any country." [2] [1] http://gbdeclaration.org/ http://gbdeclaration.org/ [2] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13484 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13484
    - hyperman1 6y ago
      The second paper is interesting, and I have only skimmed it, not read it (I'l check it out this evening). Basically it compares 8 country's with harsh measures (mrNPI's) with 2 countrys with lighter measures (lrNPI's) It might imply that lockdowns are not the only way forward, but surely does not advocate doing nothing. Some notes from Page 5 figure 2 - That whole table is interesting to show what works and what doesn't. France, national lockdown is in green, i.e. significant effect estimated on daily growth rate. So lockdowns do work, according to the paper. In lrNPI's, the countrys without lockdown, the table suggests as alternatives: * For South Korea: Optional social distancing and emergency declaration. * For Sweden: School closure, no public or private gathering. I'm not sure if this is much better than a complete lockdown. There are also big differences in how well people follow guidelines from their governement. Cliché maybe, but i see optional social distancing working better in South Korea culture than in an USA style 'fuck the gubberment' culture. The site's PDF viewer should be taken out and shot, BTW. Here is a download link: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/eci.13484?download=true https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/eci.13...
jl2718 6y ago
I worked for the biggest club owner in Boston for 4 years. Well, second biggest by the end, so maybe I’m not the best source. It started off great. This was back in the trance era. The clubs were full of mostly young and very attractive women, and their male friends they brought along. The small staff was reliable, and the DJ was creative and original but unobtrusive. It was a nice gentle real-estate investment business, but it didn’t bring in much money. The girls don’t want to pay much, and we didn’t let in a lot of unaccompanied dudes, which you may call foul on, but it was generally safe and pleasant this way. It made more money as a concert or event venue. So we started leasing the space more and more to promoters who would, of course, pack the place with anybody that had $20. For the first few weeks it was free, because they hire street teams to hand out promo tickets. That was utter chaos. The normal crowd was gone forever after the first night. They had to hire their own security, mostly ex-cons, bartenders off the street, and the DJ was playing straight off the top40 hip hop list and somehow making that worse by overdriving the pre-amp, hitting the horn every 10 seconds, and yelling derogatory rap tropes at the women. There was no dancing, just people mashed together with hands in uninvited places. I thought that would be the end of it, but it persisted. The owner was in court all week showing off his indemnity clause in the lease for all the theft, fighting, disorderly conduct, drug charges, and sexual assault cases that traced back to club goers. When the freebies ended it was nearly all dudes, and everything about the place got even worse, but, I have never seen so many $20 bills. The cashier was overwhelmed and scared for her life. Same thing at the bar. We couldn’t store enough well vodka, nor secure all the cash. All the cash-handling employees were ours, but most of them quit, and we had to replace and augment in a hurry. Then, predictably, the cash started disappearing. We were on the road once brainstorming with the owner about how to shift the business to a gym, or just about anything else. One day, the Pats were celebrating their super bowl win at one of the smaller clubs, so I was there for a bit and then went back to the man club. There was a dead body pooled in blood in the middle of the street outside, and the widest human I’ve ever seen in my life being held down and then ushered into the back of a police van. By that point, everybody was getting thoroughly frisked at the entrance. We had had a few shanks before, so were were trying to be careful. This dude packed a whole .357 magnum revolver deep under the folds of his belly and kept it there all night until the place started emptying out and he blasted a dude right through his back. Screw that. I was finally out. A whole industry built on the hopeless sexual frustration and angst of men buying alcoholic women free drinks in the hopes that they’ll become suggestible or possibly incapacitated. I loved night clubs in their best version. I loved the music. I loved dancing. I loved the show and the tease of scantily-clad beautiful people, the safe place we used to provide them to be admired and desired but in their own space. I always hated the alcohol and the drugs though. The best times were when it was rented out by a reputable group, like HBS or the “Last Chance Dance”, or the Russian parties. I don’t think it’s possible to have a good environment with open admissions. Even the high end clubs just ended up full of drug dealers and working girls that nobody “high-end” would have wanted to meet. The gay clubs were okay, much safer and more actual dancing, but lack a lot of the main attraction, even for the gay men. Well anyway, I see night clubs dying because they’re just not safe anymore, especially for the most desired patrons. You can’t count on a random group of strangers to uphold a strong code of community ethics. You’re vulnerable in there, especially when drinking, much more than you think when planning the night. Maybe it never was safe, but I’m pretty sure it’s gotten worse as the crowd has changed everywhere.
rektide 6y ago
very much agree. nightlife has been struggling, is my prescription, in my city. it's very pricey. a lot less youth, a lot less live musical & clubs, more medium-upscale dining.
drglitch 6y ago
Speaking about at least NYC, the nightclub prices have gone just a little bit too nuts right before Covid - think $2k for a table for 4 with a single bottle of ($30 dollar) vodka. $25 mix drinks were a norm. Combined with lack of innovative artists and ever-increasing homogeneity of style (do I sound like a grumpy old man yet?), clubs seemed to have been racing towards a peak. Smaller venues were suddenly cooler, cheaper, and more interesting.
- pelagicAustral 6y ago
  Jesus H Christ! 2 G's for a table? You know, where I'm from, a person can get a decently sized house with a 12,000 downpayment. All you have to do is stay home for 6 straight weekends in NYC. Apparently.
  - williamdclt 6y ago
    Not sure that's a relevant comparison, the class of people that will put a 12000 down payment for this decently sized house are not the same class of people that will splash 2k on a nightclub table in NYC
    - albertgoeswoof 6y ago
      They’re the same class, one group just has a lot more money than the other
  - executive 6y ago
    $25,000 for a top table at LIV Miami NYE. $7,500 on a regular night.
    - lizknope 6y ago
      I have not been to a club night or otherwise in over 25 years. It's just not my thing. But I am curious what is the difference between a top table and a regular table? What even goes on at a regular table?
ZanyProgrammer 6y ago
I think there’s a lot of things that “even before X, they were struggling” could apply to as well. Like shopping malls, department stores and the internet.
- mathattack 6y ago
  COVID is a trend accelerator.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    I don't know how serious you were intending that to be, but I think it's pretty much spot on. I was dipping in and out of a virtual event last week essentially about current and future work (from The Economist actually) and one person made a comment to the effect of COVID brought the next decade of workplace changes into the present. i.e. there's not a lot that wasn't happening to some degree anyway, but it's been greatly accelerated.
    - mathattack 6y ago
      I was serious.
      - DiggyJohnson 6y ago
        Nice brevity.
thepangolino 6y ago
Here’s an equally true title, see how you like it: “Even before COVID-19, coronavirus victims were struggling with multiple comorbidities”
- eznzt 6y ago
  I like it. People who are obese and/or suffer from hypertension should've taken care of themselves for example.
- dang 6y ago
  Could you please stop posting flamebait and unsubstantive comments to HN? You've been doing it a lot and it's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
buggeryorkshire 6y ago
Agree with this - my step-son is 18 and wouldn't even consider going to a nightclub regardless of Covid. For his generation it seems to be standard to find a house where the parents are away for the weekend and invite everybody + their dog down. Nightclubs aren't even on their radar, which is very different to when I was 18.
- dbbk 6y ago
  This is just anecdotal. On the whole clubs are just as popular with young people as they have ever been.
- icefo 6y ago
  I'm 5 year older and I agree. You can also have a lot more fun by mixing board games / (drinking) card games / beer pongs in the same party. It's becoming pretty common to know a few amateur DJs / music creators and if you have some decent speakers they happily mix for a part of the night. When they're done it's back to DJ ipod. There is also plenty of raves where I live. I feel the atmosphere is much more enjoyable there than in night clubs
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    90s clubs grew out of a similar scene. Many started as informal house parties, then grew into warehouse parties and field raves, and eventually that generated enough money for a permanent base and/or an official festival and/or supporting merch and other outlets. (Music labels, merch sales, boho restaurants and bars...) There was a real startup-like scene around this in the 90s in Europe. You actually need impressive organisational, networking, and marketing talent to make a warehouse or field rave happen. The festivals this spawned eventually turned into gigantic multi-stage events with the latest audio, VJ, laser, and other tech. Unless Covid restrictions become permanent, I'd expect a similar cycle to repeat, although perhaps with different properties. (Empty shopping malls? Maybe even empty office blocks?)
- izacus 6y ago
  But that might just be because there he's in a different subculture. The clubbers were never the majority of population and there was also always a "bar crowd", "park drinking crowd" (not so much in US I guess), "home party crowd", etc. etc.
kgc 6y ago
I suspect it's because an entire AirBnB can be had for 1/10th the price of a table.
- gspr 6y ago
  What kind of nightclub are you talking about? The best ones don't have tables and entrance is the price of a drink.
  - rhodozelia 6y ago
    the cobalt in Vancouver BC had dirt floors until not that long ago
- draugadrotten 6y ago
  This is certainly my experience from Eastern Europe. A few party hungry people hires one of the "hollywood director style" villas for a few thousand for the night, and have a one-night ad hoc club there. This is even more common now during Corona for obvious reasons. Hey, even the EU parliament members does it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55174210 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55174210
finiteseries 6y ago
The article is available here: https://outline.com/VuhFpq https://outline.com/VuhFpq
hollowcelery 6y ago
I feel like there are at least two very distinct notions of "nightclub" (not counting gay clubs), and in online discussions people generally talk past each other without realising they're referring to very different things. I see this happening already in this comment section - the clubs some of you are talking about have nothing to do with the ones being discussed in the article. Let me quickly list the attributes of the two main categories of club: 1) Dressing up in a button-down or a suit or a dress and high heels. Sitting down at tables around $300 bottles of Grey Goose. Pop music, hip-hop, electrohouse. Crowd is mostly straight, most attendees are there with the intention of meeting a sexual partner. You stay for 1-3 hours, mostly talk and get wasted and dance a bit. 2) Dressing in casual clothing or streetwear-oriented fashion with comfortable shoes for dancing. Few or no tables - the dancefloor is the primary attraction. More drugs than drinks. Crowd skews alternative with strong LGBT presence. People are there for the music, which is generally repetitive electronic music, house or techno or DnB etc. You stay for 3-8 hours, mostly dancing and talking to friends, drinking but probably not getting drunk. This article is mostly discussing the second category, but I'm not sure how familiar American readers will be with this style of club - my understanding is that it's primarily a European phenomenon, with outshoots in some key non-European cities (NYC, Detroit, Sao Paulo, Tokyo to name a few). These clubs are closer in concept to American raves, except at dedicated club venues. These spaces have historically been incredibly important for minority communities (queer, black, latino) also for musicians. They foster the cutting-edge of underground electronic music, which eventually filters down to shape the next generation of radio pop. Berghain, the club mentioned at the start of the article, is the prototypical example of such a venue. I don't care for the first category of clubs and I don't attend them, but it would be a huge loss to culture if the second style of club disappears. It was already struggling pre-Covid, with many clubs in London doubling as event spaces or art spaces during the day in order to raise more money.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  I love the nightclubs one sees in movies from the 1930's. Too bad I've never seen one in real life.
- wdb 6y ago
  I always thought 'nightclub' vs 'club' was that the nightclub had VIP rooms, and nearly naked ladies dancing around, and £10 lap dances.
randomopining 6y ago
They’re just gonna die and then new capital (obv there’s a lot right now) is gonna come in and buy a ready to go venue for under prior market rates. Then prob hire some of the same people and start it again under a different name and or vibe.
tialaramex 6y ago
In my city I'd suggest a big change that was already happening before COVID-19 was that you'd go buy fancy ice cream instead. You can listen to current music, hang out with your friends, buy something you don't really need, late at night, but because ice cream doesn't cause humans to become stupider and more violent it causes much less trouble so the ice cream place doesn't have a constant war with the courts and police over the excess crime. The ice cream shop does shut a bit earlier than the nightclubs (midnight versus 0200 or so) though.
tupac_speedrap 6y ago
Maybe it's a bit of a generational thing? I'm not a fan. Shit loud music, £5+ to get in, the drinks are expensive and bouncers are arbitrary so you have to deal with that.
- laurent92 6y ago
  Bouncers were my regular insult to my developing identity in my latter teenage years. We were engineers, we didn’t understand what those bouncers wanted... We couldn’t bring girls, we didn’t know many. A weekly frustration. I believe that is why I really enjoyed becoming gay. I was cute, muscular and decently dressed, lord knows why I wasn’t welcome in straight clubs (and I wasn’t effeminate), but at least in gay clubs there was no ratio or requirement to bring women on board. The same when dealing with a gay relationship: No assigned gender role, no problem if the other is doing the washing up. I literally became gay because it was easier, I was desired by many, accepted in clubs, found equality in the relationship, where I was refused by women. I never pierced the secret. But I’m still regretting.
  - anchpop 6y ago
    What are you regretting? Never figuring out how to have relationships with women?
  - The_rationalist 6y ago
    Well it's much easier for women to be attractive because of makeup. Being muscular for men is only half of the equation, you need to buy fit clothes to show them. Also taking care of your beard do make a difference.
dehrmann 6y ago
To quote Lorde, > I'm kind of over gettin' told to throw my hands up in the air > So there Personally, I don't like white boy shuffling and yelling into someone's ear to have a "conversation" enough to justify the club experience, never mind the overpriced drinks. I guess the people who really like the music and dancing have moved on to the rave scene.
neonate 6y ago
https://archive.is/clhiI https://archive.is/clhiI
macspoofing 6y ago
Even back in my day, nightclubs had a high turnover. It seemed the lifespan of nightclub was around 5 years before they closed down, only to be replaced by another to repeat the cycle.
zappo2938 6y ago
(edit) Nightclubs have often been used for laundering money. Changes in how money is laundered because people going cashless using credit cards, legalization of the billion dollar pot industry, and technology have changed that. Also, there are other instruments for laundering money such as high art and real estate that compete with nightclubs in the space.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  The thing is (and I live in NOLA at the moment and have for years) even though cash bars have been declining the alternative scene still self organized - there used to be one just down the street from Republic on N Peters (which is not the FQ granted) where lots of people would head immediately after Decadence for example (I’m being purposefully vague but if you know anything about the scene you can determine which I mean)

119 points by prostoalex 6y ago

Clubs were a place of hedonism and cultural disruption but these days with all the me too and victorian morals the only ones who can still enjoy themselves are gays who get excused for whatever behaviour and maybe some minorities who couldn't care less about anything. Add tinder to the mix and there is no reason for a straight white person to risk their reputation or even freedom in a club. The other problem is music which used to be part of the counter culture and social movements but now has no cultural meaning and is pure entertainment. People used to define themselves by the type of music they listen to and the relevant cloths and attitude but it seems like in some ways it moved towards gaming, these days the games you play define you more than the music. It is not without reason that two of the most disrupting sub cultures had something to do with gaming, gamergate and gamestop.

Triv888 6y ago

they aren't struggling too much around here even during covid... still a bunch of tourists in FL

stuaxo 6y ago

Lets not forget gentrification. In the bit of London near London bridge, there were 3 clubs, (a large, medium and small one), that have all gone due to gentrification. Now there are no places doing proper music + DJ nights. What is there now? There's the odd late night cocktail place thats moved in, but nowhere to go and dance + listen to loud music. EDIT: The only hope I see for the future, is that lots of people are moving out of cities (700k out of London in this year alone). As buildings empty out, there may once again be landlords willing to rent out places to be music venues. It depends on whether foreign money continues to buy up all the properties in London, landbanking at the expense of homes and culture.

Capira 6y ago

It's misleading to blame "the pandemic" when in fact the lockdowns have left businesses fighting for their survival. In particular because many of the world's most renown epidemiologists (such as Stanford Professor Ioannidis) keep warning that lockdowns are devastating because they cause much more harm than good. In spite of that, our governments keep pushing for more strict lockdowns. Lockdowns manipulate markets to an extreme extend. The profits of a few mega-corporations are skyrocketing while small businesses are dying like flies. It feels like we're forgetting that diversified markets are essential for democracy.

The_rationalist 6y ago
Source?
- Capira 6y ago
  Epidemiologists from Stanford, Harvard and Oxford demand: "Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal." [1] Stanford study: "we find no clear, significant beneficial effect of [lockdowns] on case growth in any country." [2] [1] http://gbdeclaration.org/ http://gbdeclaration.org/ [2] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13484 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13484
  - hyperman1 6y ago
    The second paper is interesting, and I have only skimmed it, not read it (I'l check it out this evening). Basically it compares 8 country's with harsh measures (mrNPI's) with 2 countrys with lighter measures (lrNPI's) It might imply that lockdowns are not the only way forward, but surely does not advocate doing nothing. Some notes from Page 5 figure 2 - That whole table is interesting to show what works and what doesn't. France, national lockdown is in green, i.e. significant effect estimated on daily growth rate. So lockdowns do work, according to the paper. In lrNPI's, the countrys without lockdown, the table suggests as alternatives: * For South Korea: Optional social distancing and emergency declaration. * For Sweden: School closure, no public or private gathering. I'm not sure if this is much better than a complete lockdown. There are also big differences in how well people follow guidelines from their governement. Cliché maybe, but i see optional social distancing working better in South Korea culture than in an USA style 'fuck the gubberment' culture. The site's PDF viewer should be taken out and shot, BTW. Here is a download link: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/eci.13484?download=true https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/eci.13...

jl2718 6y ago

I worked for the biggest club owner in Boston for 4 years. Well, second biggest by the end, so maybe I’m not the best source. It started off great. This was back in the trance era. The clubs were full of mostly young and very attractive women, and their male friends they brought along. The small staff was reliable, and the DJ was creative and original but unobtrusive. It was a nice gentle real-estate investment business, but it didn’t bring in much money. The girls don’t want to pay much, and we didn’t let in a lot of unaccompanied dudes, which you may call foul on, but it was generally safe and pleasant this way. It made more money as a concert or event venue. So we started leasing the space more and more to promoters who would, of course, pack the place with anybody that had $20. For the first few weeks it was free, because they hire street teams to hand out promo tickets. That was utter chaos. The normal crowd was gone forever after the first night. They had to hire their own security, mostly ex-cons, bartenders off the street, and the DJ was playing straight off the top40 hip hop list and somehow making that worse by overdriving the pre-amp, hitting the horn every 10 seconds, and yelling derogatory rap tropes at the women. There was no dancing, just people mashed together with hands in uninvited places. I thought that would be the end of it, but it persisted. The owner was in court all week showing off his indemnity clause in the lease for all the theft, fighting, disorderly conduct, drug charges, and sexual assault cases that traced back to club goers. When the freebies ended it was nearly all dudes, and everything about the place got even worse, but, I have never seen so many $20 bills. The cashier was overwhelmed and scared for her life. Same thing at the bar. We couldn’t store enough well vodka, nor secure all the cash. All the cash-handling employees were ours, but most of them quit, and we had to replace and augment in a hurry. Then, predictably, the cash started disappearing. We were on the road once brainstorming with the owner about how to shift the business to a gym, or just about anything else. One day, the Pats were celebrating their super bowl win at one of the smaller clubs, so I was there for a bit and then went back to the man club. There was a dead body pooled in blood in the middle of the street outside, and the widest human I’ve ever seen in my life being held down and then ushered into the back of a police van. By that point, everybody was getting thoroughly frisked at the entrance. We had had a few shanks before, so were were trying to be careful. This dude packed a whole .357 magnum revolver deep under the folds of his belly and kept it there all night until the place started emptying out and he blasted a dude right through his back. Screw that. I was finally out. A whole industry built on the hopeless sexual frustration and angst of men buying alcoholic women free drinks in the hopes that they’ll become suggestible or possibly incapacitated. I loved night clubs in their best version. I loved the music. I loved dancing. I loved the show and the tease of scantily-clad beautiful people, the safe place we used to provide them to be admired and desired but in their own space. I always hated the alcohol and the drugs though. The best times were when it was rented out by a reputable group, like HBS or the “Last Chance Dance”, or the Russian parties. I don’t think it’s possible to have a good environment with open admissions. Even the high end clubs just ended up full of drug dealers and working girls that nobody “high-end” would have wanted to meet. The gay clubs were okay, much safer and more actual dancing, but lack a lot of the main attraction, even for the gay men. Well anyway, I see night clubs dying because they’re just not safe anymore, especially for the most desired patrons. You can’t count on a random group of strangers to uphold a strong code of community ethics. You’re vulnerable in there, especially when drinking, much more than you think when planning the night. Maybe it never was safe, but I’m pretty sure it’s gotten worse as the crowd has changed everywhere.

rektide 6y ago

very much agree. nightlife has been struggling, is my prescription, in my city. it's very pricey. a lot less youth, a lot less live musical & clubs, more medium-upscale dining.

drglitch 6y ago

Speaking about at least NYC, the nightclub prices have gone just a little bit too nuts right before Covid - think $2k for a table for 4 with a single bottle of ($30 dollar) vodka. $25 mix drinks were a norm. Combined with lack of innovative artists and ever-increasing homogeneity of style (do I sound like a grumpy old man yet?), clubs seemed to have been racing towards a peak. Smaller venues were suddenly cooler, cheaper, and more interesting.

pelagicAustral 6y ago
Jesus H Christ! 2 G's for a table? You know, where I'm from, a person can get a decently sized house with a 12,000 downpayment. All you have to do is stay home for 6 straight weekends in NYC. Apparently.
- williamdclt 6y ago
  Not sure that's a relevant comparison, the class of people that will put a 12000 down payment for this decently sized house are not the same class of people that will splash 2k on a nightclub table in NYC
  - albertgoeswoof 6y ago
    They’re the same class, one group just has a lot more money than the other
- executive 6y ago
  $25,000 for a top table at LIV Miami NYE. $7,500 on a regular night.
  - lizknope 6y ago
    I have not been to a club night or otherwise in over 25 years. It's just not my thing. But I am curious what is the difference between a top table and a regular table? What even goes on at a regular table?

ZanyProgrammer 6y ago

I think there’s a lot of things that “even before X, they were struggling” could apply to as well. Like shopping malls, department stores and the internet.

mathattack 6y ago
COVID is a trend accelerator.
- ghaff 6y ago
  I don't know how serious you were intending that to be, but I think it's pretty much spot on. I was dipping in and out of a virtual event last week essentially about current and future work (from The Economist actually) and one person made a comment to the effect of COVID brought the next decade of workplace changes into the present. i.e. there's not a lot that wasn't happening to some degree anyway, but it's been greatly accelerated.
  - mathattack 6y ago
    I was serious.
    - DiggyJohnson 6y ago
      Nice brevity.

thepangolino 6y ago

Here’s an equally true title, see how you like it: “Even before COVID-19, coronavirus victims were struggling with multiple comorbidities”

eznzt 6y ago
I like it. People who are obese and/or suffer from hypertension should've taken care of themselves for example.
dang 6y ago
Could you please stop posting flamebait and unsubstantive comments to HN? You've been doing it a lot and it's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

buggeryorkshire 6y ago

Agree with this - my step-son is 18 and wouldn't even consider going to a nightclub regardless of Covid. For his generation it seems to be standard to find a house where the parents are away for the weekend and invite everybody + their dog down. Nightclubs aren't even on their radar, which is very different to when I was 18.

dbbk 6y ago
This is just anecdotal. On the whole clubs are just as popular with young people as they have ever been.
icefo 6y ago
I'm 5 year older and I agree. You can also have a lot more fun by mixing board games / (drinking) card games / beer pongs in the same party. It's becoming pretty common to know a few amateur DJs / music creators and if you have some decent speakers they happily mix for a part of the night. When they're done it's back to DJ ipod. There is also plenty of raves where I live. I feel the atmosphere is much more enjoyable there than in night clubs
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  90s clubs grew out of a similar scene. Many started as informal house parties, then grew into warehouse parties and field raves, and eventually that generated enough money for a permanent base and/or an official festival and/or supporting merch and other outlets. (Music labels, merch sales, boho restaurants and bars...) There was a real startup-like scene around this in the 90s in Europe. You actually need impressive organisational, networking, and marketing talent to make a warehouse or field rave happen. The festivals this spawned eventually turned into gigantic multi-stage events with the latest audio, VJ, laser, and other tech. Unless Covid restrictions become permanent, I'd expect a similar cycle to repeat, although perhaps with different properties. (Empty shopping malls? Maybe even empty office blocks?)
izacus 6y ago
But that might just be because there he's in a different subculture. The clubbers were never the majority of population and there was also always a "bar crowd", "park drinking crowd" (not so much in US I guess), "home party crowd", etc. etc.

kgc 6y ago

I suspect it's because an entire AirBnB can be had for 1/10th the price of a table.

gspr 6y ago
What kind of nightclub are you talking about? The best ones don't have tables and entrance is the price of a drink.
- rhodozelia 6y ago
  the cobalt in Vancouver BC had dirt floors until not that long ago
draugadrotten 6y ago
This is certainly my experience from Eastern Europe. A few party hungry people hires one of the "hollywood director style" villas for a few thousand for the night, and have a one-night ad hoc club there. This is even more common now during Corona for obvious reasons. Hey, even the EU parliament members does it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55174210 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55174210

finiteseries 6y ago

The article is available here: https://outline.com/VuhFpq https://outline.com/VuhFpq

hollowcelery 6y ago

I feel like there are at least two very distinct notions of "nightclub" (not counting gay clubs), and in online discussions people generally talk past each other without realising they're referring to very different things. I see this happening already in this comment section - the clubs some of you are talking about have nothing to do with the ones being discussed in the article. Let me quickly list the attributes of the two main categories of club: 1) Dressing up in a button-down or a suit or a dress and high heels. Sitting down at tables around $300 bottles of Grey Goose. Pop music, hip-hop, electrohouse. Crowd is mostly straight, most attendees are there with the intention of meeting a sexual partner. You stay for 1-3 hours, mostly talk and get wasted and dance a bit. 2) Dressing in casual clothing or streetwear-oriented fashion with comfortable shoes for dancing. Few or no tables - the dancefloor is the primary attraction. More drugs than drinks. Crowd skews alternative with strong LGBT presence. People are there for the music, which is generally repetitive electronic music, house or techno or DnB etc. You stay for 3-8 hours, mostly dancing and talking to friends, drinking but probably not getting drunk. This article is mostly discussing the second category, but I'm not sure how familiar American readers will be with this style of club - my understanding is that it's primarily a European phenomenon, with outshoots in some key non-European cities (NYC, Detroit, Sao Paulo, Tokyo to name a few). These clubs are closer in concept to American raves, except at dedicated club venues. These spaces have historically been incredibly important for minority communities (queer, black, latino) also for musicians. They foster the cutting-edge of underground electronic music, which eventually filters down to shape the next generation of radio pop. Berghain, the club mentioned at the start of the article, is the prototypical example of such a venue. I don't care for the first category of clubs and I don't attend them, but it would be a huge loss to culture if the second style of club disappears. It was already struggling pre-Covid, with many clubs in London doubling as event spaces or art spaces during the day in order to raise more money.

WalterBright 6y ago
I love the nightclubs one sees in movies from the 1930's. Too bad I've never seen one in real life.
wdb 6y ago
I always thought 'nightclub' vs 'club' was that the nightclub had VIP rooms, and nearly naked ladies dancing around, and £10 lap dances.

randomopining 6y ago

They’re just gonna die and then new capital (obv there’s a lot right now) is gonna come in and buy a ready to go venue for under prior market rates. Then prob hire some of the same people and start it again under a different name and or vibe.

tialaramex 6y ago

In my city I'd suggest a big change that was already happening before COVID-19 was that you'd go buy fancy ice cream instead. You can listen to current music, hang out with your friends, buy something you don't really need, late at night, but because ice cream doesn't cause humans to become stupider and more violent it causes much less trouble so the ice cream place doesn't have a constant war with the courts and police over the excess crime. The ice cream shop does shut a bit earlier than the nightclubs (midnight versus 0200 or so) though.

tupac_speedrap 6y ago

Maybe it's a bit of a generational thing? I'm not a fan. Shit loud music, £5+ to get in, the drinks are expensive and bouncers are arbitrary so you have to deal with that.

laurent92 6y ago
Bouncers were my regular insult to my developing identity in my latter teenage years. We were engineers, we didn’t understand what those bouncers wanted... We couldn’t bring girls, we didn’t know many. A weekly frustration. I believe that is why I really enjoyed becoming gay. I was cute, muscular and decently dressed, lord knows why I wasn’t welcome in straight clubs (and I wasn’t effeminate), but at least in gay clubs there was no ratio or requirement to bring women on board. The same when dealing with a gay relationship: No assigned gender role, no problem if the other is doing the washing up. I literally became gay because it was easier, I was desired by many, accepted in clubs, found equality in the relationship, where I was refused by women. I never pierced the secret. But I’m still regretting.
- anchpop 6y ago
  What are you regretting? Never figuring out how to have relationships with women?
- The_rationalist 6y ago
  Well it's much easier for women to be attractive because of makeup. Being muscular for men is only half of the equation, you need to buy fit clothes to show them. Also taking care of your beard do make a difference.

dehrmann 6y ago

To quote Lorde, > I'm kind of over gettin' told to throw my hands up in the air > So there Personally, I don't like white boy shuffling and yelling into someone's ear to have a "conversation" enough to justify the club experience, never mind the overpriced drinks. I guess the people who really like the music and dancing have moved on to the rave scene.

neonate 6y ago

https://archive.is/clhiI https://archive.is/clhiI

macspoofing 6y ago

Even back in my day, nightclubs had a high turnover. It seemed the lifespan of nightclub was around 5 years before they closed down, only to be replaced by another to repeat the cycle.

zappo2938 6y ago

(edit) Nightclubs have often been used for laundering money. Changes in how money is laundered because people going cashless using credit cards, legalization of the billion dollar pot industry, and technology have changed that. Also, there are other instruments for laundering money such as high art and real estate that compete with nightclubs in the space.

selimthegrim 6y ago
The thing is (and I live in NOLA at the moment and have for years) even though cash bars have been declining the alternative scene still self organized - there used to be one just down the street from Republic on N Peters (which is not the FQ granted) where lots of people would head immediately after Decadence for example (I’m being purposefully vague but if you know anything about the scene you can determine which I mean)