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Until someone creates a new browser with a new render/scripting engine. Which everyone always jumps on saying "it's impossible", the war is over. Chrome has won

Until someone creates a new browser with a new render/scripting engine. Which everyone always jumps on saying "it's impossible", the war is over. Chrome has won. Chrome is currently giving life support to Mozilla and when they decide to axe that, well it's game over for Mozilla. The depressing part is the freedom, the new that the internet once provided is over. It's been turned in to a commercial breeding ground and we are the cattle to be milked and bred. Until we create a whole new infrastructure, protocol suite away from the broken existing OSI model, the internet isn't going to heal. It's going to be robbed and stabbed repeatedly over and over again. Look at your browsing history today, how many times have you visited that one site in the last year? Now compare that to how many new sites you have visited in the same year; not a lot I expect.

kungito 6y ago
There is too much money in milking average non technical people in any way possible. I guess whichever "new internet" pops up will be awesome and used by just a small number of power users. Great and flexible tools will never be used by the average person. I've had 2 close family members in a span of 2 weeks get lost in the whole "log into your chrome account" vs "log into your google account within your chrome account" thing. Any remotely complex feature beyond "2 clicks to all of the 4 things I use the internet for" is just confusing people. And it's OK because that seems to be the reality. Ads for the general public are here to stay
stiray 6y ago
The issue is that Firefox HAS created a new rendering engine, but people don't switch. It has nothing to do with technology, people wont even try to switch. Some for fanboyism, some because they would have to adapt, some don't even know what browser is. What I do consider staggering is how many technically capable people are not prepared to make a switch. Google is slowly closing down the lock-down trap they have nurtured for so many years and now it should be obvious to anyone who is looking at "progress" (or decline?) of internet, but this is still not enough to at least stop using the chrome. Ah, people... we will just never learn.
- phendrenad2 6y ago
  > Google is slowly closing down the lockdown trap they have nurtured for so many years I think that forks of Chromium which have their own sync are easily thwarting this effort. If nothing else, you can always use Edge.
  - loudmax 6y ago
    Chrome to Edge is just trading one monopolist vendor lock-in for another.
    - dijit 6y ago
      Have people forgotten that edge is chromium already? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/download-the-new-microsoft-edge-based-on-chromium-0f4a3dd7-55df-60f5-739f-00010dba52cf https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/download-...
      - mumblemumble 6y ago
        "Just trading one monopolist vendor lock-in for the same monopolist vendor lock-in, but now wearing a fake mustache." I was originally pretty excited about Edge, even as a non-Windows user. I'm not sad to see IE go. But times have changed, and the balance of power has shifted. Now that IE is no longer dominant, simply losing it only worsens the browser oligopoly. Replacing it with a new rendering engine that's designed from the ground up to be standards compliant, though, makes things better. It could have meant that Firefox could once again have had an actual ally in trying to prop up a free and open Web. Microsoft giving up on Edge's rendering engine and replacing it with Chromium, though, means that, ironically, the death of IE ultimately served to further exactly the bad situation that it once emblematized.
    - cutenewt 6y ago
      This is like saying why move from a dictatorship to democracy. We're just trading one leadership figure for another.
  - 6y ago
rukshn 6y ago
You just summarized what I wrote two days ago https://ruky.me/2021/02/03/would-you-pay-me-if-i-built-a-web-browser/ https://ruky.me/2021/02/03/would-you-pay-me-if-i-built-a-web...
sinkflay 6y ago
> Chrome is currently giving life support to Mozilla and when they decide to axe that, well it's game over for Mozilla. Mozilla has a viable business model: making a browser and selling placement of search engine. They aren't on "life support" from Google. I use Firefox every day and it's a great browser. Chrome has not leap-frogged the competition. It's just the default choice for most people.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kelnos 6y ago
  > Mozilla has a viable business model: making a browser and selling placement of search engine. The problem is that the latter thing is only valuable while the former thing has enough users. As Chrome continues to siphon market share away from Firefox, Google will be willing to pay less and less for default search engine placement. Honestly I think the main reason Google keeps being so "generous" is because Firefox is ammunition they can use to fight anti-trust claims.
Zambyte 6y ago
It is both possible and extremely likely that people will continue to create new web browsers. Simply not for the HTTP web. https://gemini.circumlunar.space https://gemini.circumlunar.space Gemini is a web protocol that aims to achieve the original goal of HTPP: to create a document web. It is extremely strict about adding new features to the protocol, unlike HTTP. This means that it is easy and should remain easy to implement new browsers, and I think that is a fantastic thing!
tyingq 6y ago
The barrier to entry just seems too high now for a new browser or render/scripting engine. Things like Widevine/DRM, Apple's refusal to allow another browser, the broad footprint of browser functionality, etc. It's almost like it would have to be something other than a browser. Like the transition from gopher/ftp/newsgroups to web browsers. A bigger leap.

kungito 6y ago

There is too much money in milking average non technical people in any way possible. I guess whichever "new internet" pops up will be awesome and used by just a small number of power users. Great and flexible tools will never be used by the average person. I've had 2 close family members in a span of 2 weeks get lost in the whole "log into your chrome account" vs "log into your google account within your chrome account" thing. Any remotely complex feature beyond "2 clicks to all of the 4 things I use the internet for" is just confusing people. And it's OK because that seems to be the reality. Ads for the general public are here to stay

stiray 6y ago

The issue is that Firefox HAS created a new rendering engine, but people don't switch. It has nothing to do with technology, people wont even try to switch. Some for fanboyism, some because they would have to adapt, some don't even know what browser is. What I do consider staggering is how many technically capable people are not prepared to make a switch. Google is slowly closing down the lock-down trap they have nurtured for so many years and now it should be obvious to anyone who is looking at "progress" (or decline?) of internet, but this is still not enough to at least stop using the chrome. Ah, people... we will just never learn.

phendrenad2 6y ago
> Google is slowly closing down the lockdown trap they have nurtured for so many years I think that forks of Chromium which have their own sync are easily thwarting this effort. If nothing else, you can always use Edge.
- loudmax 6y ago
  Chrome to Edge is just trading one monopolist vendor lock-in for another.
  - dijit 6y ago
    Have people forgotten that edge is chromium already? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/download-the-new-microsoft-edge-based-on-chromium-0f4a3dd7-55df-60f5-739f-00010dba52cf https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/download-...
    - mumblemumble 6y ago
      "Just trading one monopolist vendor lock-in for the same monopolist vendor lock-in, but now wearing a fake mustache." I was originally pretty excited about Edge, even as a non-Windows user. I'm not sad to see IE go. But times have changed, and the balance of power has shifted. Now that IE is no longer dominant, simply losing it only worsens the browser oligopoly. Replacing it with a new rendering engine that's designed from the ground up to be standards compliant, though, makes things better. It could have meant that Firefox could once again have had an actual ally in trying to prop up a free and open Web. Microsoft giving up on Edge's rendering engine and replacing it with Chromium, though, means that, ironically, the death of IE ultimately served to further exactly the bad situation that it once emblematized.
  - cutenewt 6y ago
    This is like saying why move from a dictatorship to democracy. We're just trading one leadership figure for another.
- 6y ago

rukshn 6y ago

You just summarized what I wrote two days ago https://ruky.me/2021/02/03/would-you-pay-me-if-i-built-a-web-browser/ https://ruky.me/2021/02/03/would-you-pay-me-if-i-built-a-web...

sinkflay 6y ago

> Chrome is currently giving life support to Mozilla and when they decide to axe that, well it's game over for Mozilla. Mozilla has a viable business model: making a browser and selling placement of search engine. They aren't on "life support" from Google. I use Firefox every day and it's a great browser. Chrome has not leap-frogged the competition. It's just the default choice for most people.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kelnos 6y ago
> Mozilla has a viable business model: making a browser and selling placement of search engine. The problem is that the latter thing is only valuable while the former thing has enough users. As Chrome continues to siphon market share away from Firefox, Google will be willing to pay less and less for default search engine placement. Honestly I think the main reason Google keeps being so "generous" is because Firefox is ammunition they can use to fight anti-trust claims.

Zambyte 6y ago

It is both possible and extremely likely that people will continue to create new web browsers. Simply not for the HTTP web. https://gemini.circumlunar.space https://gemini.circumlunar.space Gemini is a web protocol that aims to achieve the original goal of HTPP: to create a document web. It is extremely strict about adding new features to the protocol, unlike HTTP. This means that it is easy and should remain easy to implement new browsers, and I think that is a fantastic thing!

tyingq 6y ago

The barrier to entry just seems too high now for a new browser or render/scripting engine. Things like Widevine/DRM, Apple's refusal to allow another browser, the broad footprint of browser functionality, etc. It's almost like it would have to be something other than a browser. Like the transition from gopher/ftp/newsgroups to web browsers. A bigger leap.