4 ms·

It's not "technology" that has provided you all those things, its civilization. Without technology you could still be sitting in a nice sunlit cave drinking fre

It's not "technology" that has provided you all those things, its civilization. Without technology you could still be sitting in a nice sunlit cave drinking fresh clean river water eating a delicious buffalo steak. Technology != Civilization.

WalterBright 6y ago
Watcha gonna kill that buffalo with? You don't have arrows, spears, traps. Watcha gonna slice off that buffalo steak with? You don't have knives. Watcha gonna cook that steak with? You don't have fire. Watcha gonna carry that water into your cave with? You don't have pottery. You don't have technology. Don't think those things are simple, either. Go out into the local woods and try building yourself a fire without matches. Try making an arrowhead. Try making yourself a stone knife. Try making a clay pot. Good luck.
- DC1350 6y ago
  It's very easy to hunt buffalo without technology. You just need some friends and a big cliff.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    You have no meat storage technology, so that isn't likely to keep you alive all year round. There are only so many herds you can run over a cliff. Besides, the hunters used technology to herd those buffalo. I doubt the buffalo would have taken much notice of a few naked people hopping around waving their arms.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      And then an asteroid impacts, or a volcano farts loudly, and all these discussions are moot. At least for a while. Because all of this happened before, and it will happen again. https://www.biblestudytools.com/gnt/ecclesiastes/passage/?q=ecclesiastes+1:9-18 https://www.biblestudytools.com/gnt/ecclesiastes/passage/?q=... https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/468991-all-of-this-has-happened-before-and-it-will-all https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/468991-all-of-this-has-happ... https://cityoftongues.com/non-fiction/all-of-this-has-happened-before/ https://cityoftongues.com/non-fiction/all-of-this-has-happen... https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EternalRecurrence https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EternalRecurrenc...
    - DC1350 6y ago
      I’m not making things up. This is how native americans hunted bison in the Canadian plains. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_jump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_jump And obviously they could preserve it somehow because they didn’t die.
      - WalterBright 6y ago
        The link also describes them using technology. Remember: no technology means no fire, no spears, no arrow, no knives, no pottery, no weaving, no making glue, etc. If you believe those aren't technology, just try doing it yourself with nothing but your hands and nature. You can even watch some youtube videos on making fire from scratch. Then try it yourself. You'll fail. Even the one guy on "Alone" who didn't take along flint&steel used advanced technology to make a bow drill (using modern cord and a knife). He was an experienced outdoorsman and still had a lot of trouble with it. If you, I, or anyone else on HN were dropped naked into the wilderness, we'd be dead within a week. Likely within a day from exposure.
  - Isinlor 6y ago
    This is how will your hunting look like: https://youtu.be/OYEKmGQvFH4?t=40 https://youtu.be/OYEKmGQvFH4?t=40
- jay_kyburz 6y ago
  With a little imagination you could imagine a happy chimpanzee sitting in a tree eating fruit instead. Technology is "empowering" there is no doubt. But you can choose to build civilization with that power, or you can tear it down.
  - jay_kyburz 6y ago
    Update: I should add that I didn't read the link, I'm only responding to the original title which was "There is nothing inherently utopian about technological progress", and while I agree that technical progress is a vital part of achieving utopia, I don't agree that new technology will lead us to utopia without other forces "steering the ship" towards that utopia
  - Isinlor 6y ago
    Chimpanzee are extremely brutal in comparison to our modern homo sapiens standards. They will literally, physically tear apart chimps from outside groups because they compete for territory in order to survive. Their idea of advancing in the group includes raping everyone below you, especially females. You *would not* want to be a chimp.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      Also 'strategic infanticide'...
    - api 6y ago
      So Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein, and Jimmy Saville are/were chimpanzees? :P

WalterBright 6y ago

Watcha gonna kill that buffalo with? You don't have arrows, spears, traps. Watcha gonna slice off that buffalo steak with? You don't have knives. Watcha gonna cook that steak with? You don't have fire. Watcha gonna carry that water into your cave with? You don't have pottery. You don't have technology. Don't think those things are simple, either. Go out into the local woods and try building yourself a fire without matches. Try making an arrowhead. Try making yourself a stone knife. Try making a clay pot. Good luck.

DC1350 6y ago
It's very easy to hunt buffalo without technology. You just need some friends and a big cliff.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  You have no meat storage technology, so that isn't likely to keep you alive all year round. There are only so many herds you can run over a cliff. Besides, the hunters used technology to herd those buffalo. I doubt the buffalo would have taken much notice of a few naked people hopping around waving their arms.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    And then an asteroid impacts, or a volcano farts loudly, and all these discussions are moot. At least for a while. Because all of this happened before, and it will happen again. https://www.biblestudytools.com/gnt/ecclesiastes/passage/?q=ecclesiastes+1:9-18 https://www.biblestudytools.com/gnt/ecclesiastes/passage/?q=... https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/468991-all-of-this-has-happened-before-and-it-will-all https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/468991-all-of-this-has-happ... https://cityoftongues.com/non-fiction/all-of-this-has-happened-before/ https://cityoftongues.com/non-fiction/all-of-this-has-happen... https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EternalRecurrence https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EternalRecurrenc...
  - DC1350 6y ago
    I’m not making things up. This is how native americans hunted bison in the Canadian plains. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_jump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_jump And obviously they could preserve it somehow because they didn’t die.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      The link also describes them using technology. Remember: no technology means no fire, no spears, no arrow, no knives, no pottery, no weaving, no making glue, etc. If you believe those aren't technology, just try doing it yourself with nothing but your hands and nature. You can even watch some youtube videos on making fire from scratch. Then try it yourself. You'll fail. Even the one guy on "Alone" who didn't take along flint&steel used advanced technology to make a bow drill (using modern cord and a knife). He was an experienced outdoorsman and still had a lot of trouble with it. If you, I, or anyone else on HN were dropped naked into the wilderness, we'd be dead within a week. Likely within a day from exposure.
- Isinlor 6y ago
  This is how will your hunting look like: https://youtu.be/OYEKmGQvFH4?t=40 https://youtu.be/OYEKmGQvFH4?t=40
jay_kyburz 6y ago
With a little imagination you could imagine a happy chimpanzee sitting in a tree eating fruit instead. Technology is "empowering" there is no doubt. But you can choose to build civilization with that power, or you can tear it down.
- jay_kyburz 6y ago
  Update: I should add that I didn't read the link, I'm only responding to the original title which was "There is nothing inherently utopian about technological progress", and while I agree that technical progress is a vital part of achieving utopia, I don't agree that new technology will lead us to utopia without other forces "steering the ship" towards that utopia
- Isinlor 6y ago
  Chimpanzee are extremely brutal in comparison to our modern homo sapiens standards. They will literally, physically tear apart chimps from outside groups because they compete for territory in order to survive. Their idea of advancing in the group includes raping everyone below you, especially females. You *would not* want to be a chimp.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Also 'strategic infanticide'...
  - api 6y ago
    So Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein, and Jimmy Saville are/were chimpanzees? :P