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Have voting machines shifted completely to 100% of them being machines used to mark traditional ballots that are stored and can be recounted in the traditional

by harry8 6y ago

Have voting machines shifted completely to 100% of them being machines used to mark traditional ballots that are stored and can be recounted in the traditional way? "Pretty sure" isn't the appropriate standard for an election. If not it's not close to being good enough and muddies the waters. All of them /must/ be. Without exception. Every single encroachment of the integrity of and understandability election affects all of them. The confusion matters. "Oh but it's actually ok in this case." is a totally different point that is irrelvant here. Fertile ground for conspiracy where there need be none is fertile ground. Donald and Neera for two of many examples have exploited that fertile ground for personal political gain. Condemn both for their craven and vile dishonesty. Fix the issues.

rspeele 6y ago
You're correct that "pretty sure" isn't the appropriate standard for an election. However, "pretty sure" isn't the standard any state uses to approve voting machines, just the standard I use to post comments on HN. And indeed, I was WRONG. https://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/#mode/navigate/map/ppEquip/mapType/normal/year/2020 https://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/#mode/navigate/map/ppEqu... The dark red category is "DREs without VVPAT for all voters". That's direct-recording electronic voting machines, without voter-verified paper audit trail. The voter enters their vote on a touchscreen and doesn't get to see the paper ballot that records it (and the recording may never be on paper at all). That sucks and I agree that type of machine should not be used. I have to admit I was surprised that those machines are still allowed in any state. My research into the voting machines, thus far, had been focused entirely on the swing states in this election -- because those are where the Trump campaign and allies have alleged fraud. Those are Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. None of those use DREs without VVPAT, and Nevada is the only one that uses DREs at all instead of BMDs or hand-marked ballots with a scanner. But I get your point. After all, a voter in Louisiana who voted for Trump on a DRE could make the (reasonable enough) assumption that the machines are the same everywhere else, and be more susceptible to the claim that Dominion machines stole the election undetectably in Georgia.

by harry8 6y ago

rspeele 6y ago

You're correct that "pretty sure" isn't the appropriate standard for an election. However, "pretty sure" isn't the standard any state uses to approve voting machines, just the standard I use to post comments on HN. And indeed, I was WRONG. https://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/#mode/navigate/map/ppEquip/mapType/normal/year/2020 https://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/#mode/navigate/map/ppEqu... The dark red category is "DREs without VVPAT for all voters". That's direct-recording electronic voting machines, without voter-verified paper audit trail. The voter enters their vote on a touchscreen and doesn't get to see the paper ballot that records it (and the recording may never be on paper at all). That sucks and I agree that type of machine should not be used. I have to admit I was surprised that those machines are still allowed in any state. My research into the voting machines, thus far, had been focused entirely on the swing states in this election -- because those are where the Trump campaign and allies have alleged fraud. Those are Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. None of those use DREs without VVPAT, and Nevada is the only one that uses DREs at all instead of BMDs or hand-marked ballots with a scanner. But I get your point. After all, a voter in Louisiana who voted for Trump on a DRE could make the (reasonable enough) assumption that the machines are the same everywhere else, and be more susceptible to the claim that Dominion machines stole the election undetectably in Georgia.