6 ms·

> our societies need tools that can survive popular histrionics. Getting owned by some sanctimonious prick at Amazon is not pro level play. Seems like banning

> our societies need tools that can survive popular histrionics. Getting owned by some sanctimonious prick at Amazon is not pro level play. Seems like banning communities that led directly to an insurrection in congress should be one of those tools, no? I mean, that part was a bit more than just "histrionics" by "sanctimonious pricks". I know you won't buy this because of the environment that we find ourselves in, but I assure you that those of us on the left care JUST AS MUCH about civil liberties and free speech as you do. We do. I swear it. We just don't think that forum moderation is really that much an infringement on them (I mean, you're posting this on a heavily moderated forum right now). And we're less willing to forgive or excuse the spillovers from speech into action that we've seen. No one who posted on Parler should be denied a voice on other forums. They just need to do so in places where they can't get away with calling for real violence.

22c 6y ago
A large amount of insurrection planning was performed in Facebook groups. If you're going to apply a standard, at least apply it fairly.
- newacct583 6y ago
  Those groups all got closed, so far as I know, many of them long before the 6th. Do you have specific one's you're worrying about? It's fair to argue that Facebook should have done more, or did the wrong thing, but they were pretty transparently trying to clean things up at least. Parler wasn't banned retroactively as punishment, they were banned because they were continuing to do no meaningful moderation even days after the attack.
  - skynet-9000 6y ago
    So, the path to success for Parler would have been: Step 1: Hire huge moderation team. Step 2: Write draconian terms of service that incorporated every possible offensive thing that any vendor might object to. Step 3: Build an app that explodes with all the users that are delighted with the moderation. Step 4: Profit! That's not how Facebook and Twitter ("the free speech wing of the free speech party") were launched, but maybe those wouldn't ever have been able to launch today anyway.
    - newacct583 6y ago
      > Step 2: Write draconian terms of service that incorporated every possible offensive thing that any vendor might object to. No, just violent rhetoric associated with a real world violent movement. I don't understand why that keeps not registering in these discussions. I mean, even accepting your frame that we leftists have infested Big Tech and want nothing but to censor our political enemies: they've had years and years to do it, and didn't. And only when it got to the point where congress was actually attacked that a site had to be shut down. And it was just one site, and its users just moved on to Gab and such. I mean really, if conservatives are so terribly censored... how is it you guys are so loud about it?
      - skynet-9000 6y ago
        > And it was just one site, and its users just moved on to Gab and such. Is this intentionally ironic? Or did you not actually know that Gab was completely deplatformed in exactly the same way, and it almost killed them by knocking them offline for months, just when they hit a big growth curve. Interesting, actually, that the timing was so similar, as well as some of the same players.
    - 8note 6y ago
      The problem is that twitter and Facebook already exist and do their jobs well enough and have moderation Any parler type thing is only ever going to get the worst of the worst of possible users. The folks who get kicked off Facebook and Twitter aren't the people you want to build a business on
      - freebuju 6y ago
        > kicked off Facebook and Twitter aren't the people you want to build a business on They could have if they went with a provider located in another more conservative country. Or long-shot self hosted. Not supporting Parler however, it deserves it's rightful place in the embers of eternal hell for negligently failing to protect & secure sensitive user data.
      - roenxi 6y ago
motohagiography 6y ago
I'd argue the insurrection narrative is as much of a farce as Kim Jong Il hitting 11 hole-in-one strokes on a golf course, because if you voice doubt about the absurdity of the claim, it marks you as a dangerous subversive. Everybody knows it, and they're just too afraid to say so because they're worried they will get put on a list. Some conspicuously unarmed people trespassed and even managed to bring camera crews. Tech companies make these grand unctuous gestures because it distracts from how awful they know they already are. Everybody knows. The Parler CEO failed to create an alternative platform because he thought he could bargain with people who are not only not-above mendacity and deception, but it is their stock in trade. He's just a coach who lost in the play-offs due to unforced errors.
- seventytwo 6y ago
  Sympathizing with people trying to literally block the constitutional duty of congress engaging in carrying out the most fundamental aspect of a democracy? Smh
- vkou 6y ago
  How do you think coups work? Look into the history of Greek city states. A mob of civilians storming the chambers of government is quite literally how tyrants have installed themselves. Some of those tyrants had to try multiple times, before the last attempt succeeded. They generally follow up by killing their political rivals, because people who come to power through violence rarely turn around and adopt a policy of pacifism.
  - stickfigure 6y ago
    There was no real threat to democracy here. It's not like the police and military are going to take commands from some nutjob cosplayer just because they're wielding Nancy Pelosi's lectern.
    - sterlind 6y ago
      Not the mob directly, but a wicked power struggle could have ensued if they'd, say, succeeded in hanging Mike Pence or Nancy Pelosi. For instance, martial law could have been declared, or an alt-right paramilitary could have formed, or the Federal government could have reacted so strongly that states defy orders and rulings. Probably the most realistic worry would be that political violence and domestic terrorism become normalized. It really did make the US government seem far more fragile than I even expected.

22c 6y ago

A large amount of insurrection planning was performed in Facebook groups. If you're going to apply a standard, at least apply it fairly.

newacct583 6y ago
Those groups all got closed, so far as I know, many of them long before the 6th. Do you have specific one's you're worrying about? It's fair to argue that Facebook should have done more, or did the wrong thing, but they were pretty transparently trying to clean things up at least. Parler wasn't banned retroactively as punishment, they were banned because they were continuing to do no meaningful moderation even days after the attack.
- skynet-9000 6y ago
  So, the path to success for Parler would have been: Step 1: Hire huge moderation team. Step 2: Write draconian terms of service that incorporated every possible offensive thing that any vendor might object to. Step 3: Build an app that explodes with all the users that are delighted with the moderation. Step 4: Profit! That's not how Facebook and Twitter ("the free speech wing of the free speech party") were launched, but maybe those wouldn't ever have been able to launch today anyway.
  - newacct583 6y ago
    > Step 2: Write draconian terms of service that incorporated every possible offensive thing that any vendor might object to. No, just violent rhetoric associated with a real world violent movement. I don't understand why that keeps not registering in these discussions. I mean, even accepting your frame that we leftists have infested Big Tech and want nothing but to censor our political enemies: they've had years and years to do it, and didn't. And only when it got to the point where congress was actually attacked that a site had to be shut down. And it was just one site, and its users just moved on to Gab and such. I mean really, if conservatives are so terribly censored... how is it you guys are so loud about it?
    - skynet-9000 6y ago
      > And it was just one site, and its users just moved on to Gab and such. Is this intentionally ironic? Or did you not actually know that Gab was completely deplatformed in exactly the same way, and it almost killed them by knocking them offline for months, just when they hit a big growth curve. Interesting, actually, that the timing was so similar, as well as some of the same players.
  - 8note 6y ago
    The problem is that twitter and Facebook already exist and do their jobs well enough and have moderation Any parler type thing is only ever going to get the worst of the worst of possible users. The folks who get kicked off Facebook and Twitter aren't the people you want to build a business on
    - freebuju 6y ago
      > kicked off Facebook and Twitter aren't the people you want to build a business on They could have if they went with a provider located in another more conservative country. Or long-shot self hosted. Not supporting Parler however, it deserves it's rightful place in the embers of eternal hell for negligently failing to protect & secure sensitive user data.
    - roenxi 6y ago

motohagiography 6y ago

I'd argue the insurrection narrative is as much of a farce as Kim Jong Il hitting 11 hole-in-one strokes on a golf course, because if you voice doubt about the absurdity of the claim, it marks you as a dangerous subversive. Everybody knows it, and they're just too afraid to say so because they're worried they will get put on a list. Some conspicuously unarmed people trespassed and even managed to bring camera crews. Tech companies make these grand unctuous gestures because it distracts from how awful they know they already are. Everybody knows. The Parler CEO failed to create an alternative platform because he thought he could bargain with people who are not only not-above mendacity and deception, but it is their stock in trade. He's just a coach who lost in the play-offs due to unforced errors.

seventytwo 6y ago
Sympathizing with people trying to literally block the constitutional duty of congress engaging in carrying out the most fundamental aspect of a democracy? Smh
vkou 6y ago
How do you think coups work? Look into the history of Greek city states. A mob of civilians storming the chambers of government is quite literally how tyrants have installed themselves. Some of those tyrants had to try multiple times, before the last attempt succeeded. They generally follow up by killing their political rivals, because people who come to power through violence rarely turn around and adopt a policy of pacifism.
- stickfigure 6y ago
  There was no real threat to democracy here. It's not like the police and military are going to take commands from some nutjob cosplayer just because they're wielding Nancy Pelosi's lectern.
  - sterlind 6y ago
    Not the mob directly, but a wicked power struggle could have ensued if they'd, say, succeeded in hanging Mike Pence or Nancy Pelosi. For instance, martial law could have been declared, or an alt-right paramilitary could have formed, or the Federal government could have reacted so strongly that states defy orders and rulings. Probably the most realistic worry would be that political violence and domestic terrorism become normalized. It really did make the US government seem far more fragile than I even expected.