5 ms·

Yeah I know a few trekkies who hated The Expanse, but love ST Discovery. I watched half of season 1 of STD and had to switch it off. I've never hated a TV sho

Yeah I know a few trekkies who hated The Expanse, but love ST Discovery. I watched half of season 1 of STD and had to switch it off. I've never hated a TV show so much as STD. The Expanse on the other hand is the best SciFi since Battlestar Galactica. Edit - to expand on why I hate STD so much, it's the completely unlikeable characters. I just couldn't root for a single one of them.

erulabs 6y ago
STD is so eager to hit you over the head with “see how HORRIBLE society is?!?!?” The Expanse actually has its own world with its own problems that isn’t just a shallow mirror of the writers view of today. Also much less melodrama, although not none.
- CodeGlitch 6y ago
  It seems STD is trying really hard to push certain ideaologies, especially around diversity - but it feels so "fake" as if they're trying too hard. The Expanse on the other hand has a diverse cast but it feels natural and realistic.
  - effie 6y ago
    Very fake, forced and the overall script/narrative is pathetic with some minor bright moments. STD looks to me to be more like a political bidding/propaganda piece than a science fiction TV show.
meowster 6y ago
Trekkie here (more or less). I like The Orville better than Discovery. Discovery is down-right disappointing and stupid. Picard is better than Discovery, but still didn't live up to my expectations. You're probably right about Battlestar Galactica and The Expanse being the best hard sci-fi. It's hard to beat the episodes/stories in the earlier Star Trek shows. The Twilight Zone was able to pull off a faithful modern reboot, why can't Star Trek? (Someone else mentioned Planetes further down in the comments. That is also good hard sci-fi.)
- matwood 6y ago
  > The Orville It took me awhile to discover it, but what a great show. Personally, and it probably has to do with when I grew up, Star Trek TNG is my favorite sci-fi (though not necessarily 'hard' sci-fi) show.
- effie 6y ago
  > The Twilight Zone was able to pull off a faithful modern reboot, why can't Star Trek? It can be done by the right people, see Enterprise which had the trekky heart and was good on start (it did have increasing problems in later seasons). Trek is in wrong hands now. Some commentators say the main showrunners actually hate the previous classic Star Trek, and they are trying hard to revision it.
  - cbm-vic-20 6y ago
    Which is odd, since the one of the other contemporary Trek shows, Lower Decks, is a love-letter to 90s-era Trek.
    - effie 6y ago
      That is a surprising characterization. I could not watch Lower Decks, it was stupid.
      - meowster 6y ago
        I like Lower Decks. Yes, it's a bit stupid, but it's funny, and still has good stories and references.
  - dreamcompiler 6y ago
    > Some commentators say the main showrunners actually hate the previous classic Star Trek, and they are trying hard to revision it. That's exactly what it feels like to me: Either they know nothing about the Star Trek universe or they actively hate it and want to kill it.
- dreamcompiler 6y ago
the_af 6y ago
I have to agree with you on Discovery. The characters are really unlikeable. The actors aren't good or at least, not at their best (I absolutely adore Michelle Yeoh, but she really doesn't shine here). The storylines are absurd, but that's par for the course for this kind of TV show -- it's the characters which really break this. The main character Michael is almost insufferable. There's also that hilarious moment in S2 where a supporting character dies and everyone goes "oh no, she was my best friend!" and gets a teary send-off, but we -- the audience -- barely knew her and she didn't really speak with anyone and there was no evidence she was actually friends with anyone before. Like bad writing 101, almost an in-joke by the writers.
- effie 6y ago
  Btw they did similar mistake in the reverse, where some no name crew character dies and the surviving crew stars are completely oblivious to it, "yeah whatever, we do not really need him, let's move on". I like how one ST fan characterized it, classic trek always cared about people, but STD just razes through people's deaths as unimportant plot points.
wpasc 6y ago
I'd go so far as to say the Expanse beats Battlestar Galactica. It's a classic for sure but too bogged down by the single self contained episode format that made it less enjoyable for me to watch.
- effie 6y ago
  Whoa, shots fired (joke). Seriously, I think when such a show reaches certain level of quality one does not need to pronounce one better than the other. They are so good they are worth your while. Of course, if we focus on specific aspects, you may be right. BSG was dark and very serious, paranoid/survival kind of stuff. Expanse is much easier to watch, you know nothing too bad is going to happen to main characters.
LordAtlas 6y ago
For me, it's the focus on the lead character Space Jesus Michael Burnham, who has to be in every damn plot point, often whisper-talking, sometimes crying, and we know squat about most of the crew. After three seasons, I don't even know all the bridge crew names, let alone their motivations. Extremely unlikable is right.
- dreamcompiler 6y ago
  And lest we forget: She's Spock's sister. Who was never mentioned once in the entire previous Star Trek canon. And now every episode is about her. Riiiiight.
dreamcompiler 6y ago
Right there with you. I loathe STD. It reads like bad Star Trek fanfic written by people who never watched any real Star Trek. I could go on a long rant here but I'll just mention one of the ultra-ridiculous plot points of STD: The ship runs on mold. Seriously -- not dilithium crystals, but mold. They even imply that the very fabric of subspace is -- a fungus. Stupidest show on television.

erulabs 6y ago

STD is so eager to hit you over the head with “see how HORRIBLE society is?!?!?” The Expanse actually has its own world with its own problems that isn’t just a shallow mirror of the writers view of today. Also much less melodrama, although not none.

CodeGlitch 6y ago
It seems STD is trying really hard to push certain ideaologies, especially around diversity - but it feels so "fake" as if they're trying too hard. The Expanse on the other hand has a diverse cast but it feels natural and realistic.
- effie 6y ago
  Very fake, forced and the overall script/narrative is pathetic with some minor bright moments. STD looks to me to be more like a political bidding/propaganda piece than a science fiction TV show.

meowster 6y ago

Trekkie here (more or less). I like The Orville better than Discovery. Discovery is down-right disappointing and stupid. Picard is better than Discovery, but still didn't live up to my expectations. You're probably right about Battlestar Galactica and The Expanse being the best hard sci-fi. It's hard to beat the episodes/stories in the earlier Star Trek shows. The Twilight Zone was able to pull off a faithful modern reboot, why can't Star Trek? (Someone else mentioned Planetes further down in the comments. That is also good hard sci-fi.)

matwood 6y ago
> The Orville It took me awhile to discover it, but what a great show. Personally, and it probably has to do with when I grew up, Star Trek TNG is my favorite sci-fi (though not necessarily 'hard' sci-fi) show.
effie 6y ago
> The Twilight Zone was able to pull off a faithful modern reboot, why can't Star Trek? It can be done by the right people, see Enterprise which had the trekky heart and was good on start (it did have increasing problems in later seasons). Trek is in wrong hands now. Some commentators say the main showrunners actually hate the previous classic Star Trek, and they are trying hard to revision it.
- cbm-vic-20 6y ago
  Which is odd, since the one of the other contemporary Trek shows, Lower Decks, is a love-letter to 90s-era Trek.
  - effie 6y ago
    That is a surprising characterization. I could not watch Lower Decks, it was stupid.
    - meowster 6y ago
      I like Lower Decks. Yes, it's a bit stupid, but it's funny, and still has good stories and references.
- dreamcompiler 6y ago
  > Some commentators say the main showrunners actually hate the previous classic Star Trek, and they are trying hard to revision it. That's exactly what it feels like to me: Either they know nothing about the Star Trek universe or they actively hate it and want to kill it.
dreamcompiler 6y ago

the_af 6y ago

I have to agree with you on Discovery. The characters are really unlikeable. The actors aren't good or at least, not at their best (I absolutely adore Michelle Yeoh, but she really doesn't shine here). The storylines are absurd, but that's par for the course for this kind of TV show -- it's the characters which really break this. The main character Michael is almost insufferable. There's also that hilarious moment in S2 where a supporting character dies and everyone goes "oh no, she was my best friend!" and gets a teary send-off, but we -- the audience -- barely knew her and she didn't really speak with anyone and there was no evidence she was actually friends with anyone before. Like bad writing 101, almost an in-joke by the writers.

effie 6y ago
Btw they did similar mistake in the reverse, where some no name crew character dies and the surviving crew stars are completely oblivious to it, "yeah whatever, we do not really need him, let's move on". I like how one ST fan characterized it, classic trek always cared about people, but STD just razes through people's deaths as unimportant plot points.

wpasc 6y ago

I'd go so far as to say the Expanse beats Battlestar Galactica. It's a classic for sure but too bogged down by the single self contained episode format that made it less enjoyable for me to watch.

effie 6y ago
Whoa, shots fired (joke). Seriously, I think when such a show reaches certain level of quality one does not need to pronounce one better than the other. They are so good they are worth your while. Of course, if we focus on specific aspects, you may be right. BSG was dark and very serious, paranoid/survival kind of stuff. Expanse is much easier to watch, you know nothing too bad is going to happen to main characters.

LordAtlas 6y ago

For me, it's the focus on the lead character Space Jesus Michael Burnham, who has to be in every damn plot point, often whisper-talking, sometimes crying, and we know squat about most of the crew. After three seasons, I don't even know all the bridge crew names, let alone their motivations. Extremely unlikable is right.

dreamcompiler 6y ago
And lest we forget: She's Spock's sister. Who was never mentioned once in the entire previous Star Trek canon. And now every episode is about her. Riiiiight.

dreamcompiler 6y ago

Right there with you. I loathe STD. It reads like bad Star Trek fanfic written by people who never watched any real Star Trek. I could go on a long rant here but I'll just mention one of the ultra-ridiculous plot points of STD: The ship runs on mold. Seriously -- not dilithium crystals, but mold. They even imply that the very fabric of subspace is -- a fungus. Stupidest show on television.