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I've looked at some source code written in Checked C. Doesn't it possibly take away some of the pleasure of writing C?

by sgt 6y ago

chubot 6y ago
I don’t think pleasure is really the goal. The goal is systems that don’t fail spectacularly on unexpected inputs ...
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Clearly the pleasure of C is the feeling you get when your software fails spectacularly on unexpected inputs.
- spijdar 6y ago
  My (overly charitable?) interpretation is, "Is Checked C so painful to write that we'd be better off just using a better managed language" Of course, if it's feasible to refactor existing C code like in the paper, this seems like a good path forward, vs trying to "start over" with whatever other checked language of choice you pick.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    The alternative is turn to hardware tagged memory. https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/cheri-morello.html https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/cheri... https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E37838_01/html/E61059/gqajs.html https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E37838_01/html/E61059/gqajs.html https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/preparing_your_app_to_work_with_pointer_authentication https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/preparing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkoOD4hmiGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkoOD4hmiGE
    - sitkack 6y ago
      Given that we are swimming in transistors, holding on to hardware architectures that are rooted in a simplistic model keeps us from making obvious gains in software by having more capable hardware.
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Well, the industry could have adopted designs like Burroughs, Xerox or Genera, instead they decided to make faster PDP-11s.
pjmlp 6y ago
If you mean cowboy programming, thankfully.
mhd 6y ago
Can I still use the original Bourne shell macros? If so, there's still hope…
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
fulafel 6y ago
Yes. But it turns out that dragons may fly out of your nose when you're having fun this way.
GoblinSlayer 6y ago
>pleasure of writing C? Compared to C++?

I've looked at some source code written in Checked C. Doesn't it possibly take away some of the pleasure of writing C?

by sgt 6y ago

I've looked at some source code written in Checked C. Doesn't it possibly take away some of the pleasure of writing C?

chubot 6y ago

I don’t think pleasure is really the goal. The goal is systems that don’t fail spectacularly on unexpected inputs ...

saagarjha 6y ago
Clearly the pleasure of C is the feeling you get when your software fails spectacularly on unexpected inputs.
spijdar 6y ago
My (overly charitable?) interpretation is, "Is Checked C so painful to write that we'd be better off just using a better managed language" Of course, if it's feasible to refactor existing C code like in the paper, this seems like a good path forward, vs trying to "start over" with whatever other checked language of choice you pick.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  The alternative is turn to hardware tagged memory. https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/cheri-morello.html https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/cheri... https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E37838_01/html/E61059/gqajs.html https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E37838_01/html/E61059/gqajs.html https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/preparing_your_app_to_work_with_pointer_authentication https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/preparing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkoOD4hmiGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkoOD4hmiGE
  - sitkack 6y ago
    Given that we are swimming in transistors, holding on to hardware architectures that are rooted in a simplistic model keeps us from making obvious gains in software by having more capable hardware.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Well, the industry could have adopted designs like Burroughs, Xerox or Genera, instead they decided to make faster PDP-11s.

pjmlp 6y ago

If you mean cowboy programming, thankfully.

mhd 6y ago

Can I still use the original Bourne shell macros? If so, there's still hope…

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

fulafel 6y ago

Yes. But it turns out that dragons may fly out of your nose when you're having fun this way.

GoblinSlayer 6y ago

>pleasure of writing C? Compared to C++?