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>Russian authorities have arrested so many people in recent weeks that detention centres in Moscow have run out of space This fact astounds me, I cannot believ

>Russian authorities have arrested so many people in recent weeks that detention centres in Moscow have run out of space This fact astounds me, I cannot believe that the Russian Government still somehow think they are the good guys here.

vladTheInhaler 6y ago
Why would you think that they feel a need to be the "good guys"? They are doing their part in perpetuating a power structure that benefits them personally.
- dondeee 6y ago
  To be frank, I do not think they feel such a need, I was just trying to get the conversation in the comments started because I feel the need to attract as much attention to this as I personally can.
- netsharc 6y ago
  Yeah, the police are probably corrupt (random URL to back up my hypothesis: [0]), I remember reading a great book about corruption, Thieves of State, discussed here [1], it talks why the police would be defending the system: > Any highly corrupt society is bound together by a series of interlocking reciprocities: the local policeman who shakes down a passing civilian must in turn pay tribute to his police supervisor, who must pay his supervisor, and so forth; favors or spoils may be distributed in the other direction. My guess is the cops justify their work like in Stanford prison experiment, and they accept without further thinking what Putin says that the protesters are "foreign agents". [0] https://nationalpost.com/news/world/cost-of-corruption-in-russia-where-police-are-openly-taking-1000-bribes-and-grocery-bills-are-raised https://nationalpost.com/news/world/cost-of-corruption-in-ru... [1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/01/19/corruption-revolt https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/01/19/corruption-rev...
  - dondeee 6y ago
    Thank you very much for the book reference, I am definitely reading this. I think understanding the police psychology is a great insight.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    > they accept without further thinking what Putin says that the protesters are "foreign agents". No, many Russian police are well aware that protests in Russian are often driven by honest local frustration with the Russian government, and these frustrated people do not need pushing from abroad. (I speak from personal acquaintance with several.) Some police officers might even sympathize with the protesters’ lack of opportunities. However, modern Russia is a country where people affiliated with the force structures live much better than the average citizen, and so naturally they want to hang on to their own families’ prosperity at all costs. If Russia ever liberalizes, then somehow appeasing the force structures for their loss of privilege and stability is something the new regime will have to ensure, distasteful as it might seem. During the overthrow of Saddam Hussein’s regime the US insisted on completely disenfranchising the old Baathist functionaries, for example, and this was a major driver of the civil war and instability that ensued.
    - rnd0 6y ago
      >If Russia ever liberalizes, Big "if" right there. It's a lot more likely that the US and the rest of the western world will continue to slide into oligarchical-drive corruption. Lots more likely.
  - netizen-9748 6y ago
    The Stanford prison experiment has been debunked, it should not be cited as the study was intentionally manipulated. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31380664/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31380664/
    - pitay 6y ago
      Full text here: https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/2019-letexier.pdf https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/2019-letexier.pdf

vladTheInhaler 6y ago

Why would you think that they feel a need to be the "good guys"? They are doing their part in perpetuating a power structure that benefits them personally.

dondeee 6y ago
To be frank, I do not think they feel such a need, I was just trying to get the conversation in the comments started because I feel the need to attract as much attention to this as I personally can.
netsharc 6y ago
Yeah, the police are probably corrupt (random URL to back up my hypothesis: [0]), I remember reading a great book about corruption, Thieves of State, discussed here [1], it talks why the police would be defending the system: > Any highly corrupt society is bound together by a series of interlocking reciprocities: the local policeman who shakes down a passing civilian must in turn pay tribute to his police supervisor, who must pay his supervisor, and so forth; favors or spoils may be distributed in the other direction. My guess is the cops justify their work like in Stanford prison experiment, and they accept without further thinking what Putin says that the protesters are "foreign agents". [0] https://nationalpost.com/news/world/cost-of-corruption-in-russia-where-police-are-openly-taking-1000-bribes-and-grocery-bills-are-raised https://nationalpost.com/news/world/cost-of-corruption-in-ru... [1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/01/19/corruption-revolt https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/01/19/corruption-rev...
- dondeee 6y ago
  Thank you very much for the book reference, I am definitely reading this. I think understanding the police psychology is a great insight.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > they accept without further thinking what Putin says that the protesters are "foreign agents". No, many Russian police are well aware that protests in Russian are often driven by honest local frustration with the Russian government, and these frustrated people do not need pushing from abroad. (I speak from personal acquaintance with several.) Some police officers might even sympathize with the protesters’ lack of opportunities. However, modern Russia is a country where people affiliated with the force structures live much better than the average citizen, and so naturally they want to hang on to their own families’ prosperity at all costs. If Russia ever liberalizes, then somehow appeasing the force structures for their loss of privilege and stability is something the new regime will have to ensure, distasteful as it might seem. During the overthrow of Saddam Hussein’s regime the US insisted on completely disenfranchising the old Baathist functionaries, for example, and this was a major driver of the civil war and instability that ensued.
  - rnd0 6y ago
    >If Russia ever liberalizes, Big "if" right there. It's a lot more likely that the US and the rest of the western world will continue to slide into oligarchical-drive corruption. Lots more likely.
- netizen-9748 6y ago
  The Stanford prison experiment has been debunked, it should not be cited as the study was intentionally manipulated. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31380664/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31380664/
  - pitay 6y ago
    Full text here: https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/2019-letexier.pdf https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/2019-letexier.pdf