4 ms·

Except it can encourage people to be in public spaces and feel safe doing so. I've literally had the conversation about going to a mall, and the person respond

Except it can encourage people to be in public spaces and feel safe doing so. I've literally had the conversation about going to a mall, and the person responding "but they're doing temperature checks at the doors!" as why it is safe. The public has been [mis]led to believe that these checks work, and that may be the bigger problem than the checks themselves. I'm all for arguing "the enemy of better is perfect" except when you alter the general-public's behavior into less safe behaviors.

matthewmacleod 6y ago
Seems like those goalposts have been moved then… If your argument is that some partially effective measures might have a paradoxically negative effect by encouraging unsafe behaviour, then that seems like a reasonable possibility to explore - and would require some data. I personally struggle to think of any ways in which my behaviour would become less safe as a result of having my temperature taken when entering a store, but YMMV.
- nucleardog 6y ago
  > I personally struggle to think of any ways in which my behaviour would become less safe as a result of having my temperature taken when entering a store, but YMMV. Literally the example given--people don't feel the need to avoid going to a crowded, indoor space because "they're taking temperatures at the door". You may not fall victim to this, but it's otherwise a pretty well-known phenomenon with some research: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/iere.12402 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/iere.12402 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/260352 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/260352 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0001457514003807?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00014... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004727271730052X?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472... https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11127-009-9548-2 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11127-009-9548-2
- lamontcg 6y ago
  > my behaviour I mean its literally not about you, its about the behavior of crowds and you are one N=1? Also the people who object to this are generally the kind of people who don't realize how much their own opinions and behavior are molded by these things. If you don't realize that this goes on, and that it is effective, you are more likely to be one of the susceptible ones.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
The problem with these kinds of discussions is that many people are morally scandalized by answers like "the mall is very important to me" or "I'm aware of and accept the marginal risk". So there's a lot of social pressure to come up with reasons why whatever you'd like to do is "safe", and those reasons don't necessarily reflect the actual thought process. Most likely your friend would be going to the mall regardless of what safety measures were in place. I'm imagining a friend challenging me on whether it's safe to go out to get boba. I might point out that they don't have you wait inside the shop or that I avoid going when there's a long line, but the honest answer is that I really want boba and don't typically think about the risk in this level of detail.
treeman79 6y ago
Yea I was shocked how I never got a fever with covid. Maybe a few hours at most. Kids had a fever for one night. Wife and I were horribly exhausted for a week before any other symptoms showed up. So we just dismissed it as being tired. Even had a negative test during that week.

matthewmacleod 6y ago

Seems like those goalposts have been moved then… If your argument is that some partially effective measures might have a paradoxically negative effect by encouraging unsafe behaviour, then that seems like a reasonable possibility to explore - and would require some data. I personally struggle to think of any ways in which my behaviour would become less safe as a result of having my temperature taken when entering a store, but YMMV.

nucleardog 6y ago
> I personally struggle to think of any ways in which my behaviour would become less safe as a result of having my temperature taken when entering a store, but YMMV. Literally the example given--people don't feel the need to avoid going to a crowded, indoor space because "they're taking temperatures at the door". You may not fall victim to this, but it's otherwise a pretty well-known phenomenon with some research: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/iere.12402 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/iere.12402 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/260352 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/260352 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0001457514003807?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00014... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004727271730052X?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472... https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11127-009-9548-2 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11127-009-9548-2
lamontcg 6y ago
> my behaviour I mean its literally not about you, its about the behavior of crowds and you are one N=1? Also the people who object to this are generally the kind of people who don't realize how much their own opinions and behavior are molded by these things. If you don't realize that this goes on, and that it is effective, you are more likely to be one of the susceptible ones.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

The problem with these kinds of discussions is that many people are morally scandalized by answers like "the mall is very important to me" or "I'm aware of and accept the marginal risk". So there's a lot of social pressure to come up with reasons why whatever you'd like to do is "safe", and those reasons don't necessarily reflect the actual thought process. Most likely your friend would be going to the mall regardless of what safety measures were in place. I'm imagining a friend challenging me on whether it's safe to go out to get boba. I might point out that they don't have you wait inside the shop or that I avoid going when there's a long line, but the honest answer is that I really want boba and don't typically think about the risk in this level of detail.

treeman79 6y ago

Yea I was shocked how I never got a fever with covid. Maybe a few hours at most. Kids had a fever for one night. Wife and I were horribly exhausted for a week before any other symptoms showed up. So we just dismissed it as being tired. Even had a negative test during that week.