7 ms·

Racial Equity and Justice Initiative

10 points by illuminated 6y ago

aww_dang 6y ago
How's the situation in Xinjiang going? https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/29/lens-technology-apple-uighur/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/29/lens-te...
vzcx 6y ago
"Computers?"
Bostonian 6y ago
Apple has no special expertise in "Criminal Justice Reform". Some of its shareholders, employees, and customers may support less prosecution and shorter sentences, but others do not. Murder rates did spike in 2020. I am effectively an Apple shareholder through stock index funds and would prefer that it stay out of politics.
pacamara619 6y ago
These are not the droids you're looking for. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/apple-spent-90000-lobbying-lawmakers-on-uyghur-forced-labor-bill/ https://www.nationalreview.com/news/apple-spent-90000-lobbyi...
Darmody 6y ago
Virtue signalling. Apple is here for the money, they don't care about anything else. I don't blame them for that but I'm tired of seeing how the wealthy are trying to give us moral lessons while they do exactly the opposite. They want justice but they don't mind their products being manufactured by slave labour. They tell us to stop polluting while they have private jets and yachts. A good marketing campaign but you won't see them talking to people from poor neighbourhoods too see what they have to say or what are they daily struggles.
- faitswulff 6y ago
  If a $100M investment along these lines is virtue signaling, I'm all for more virtue signaling. Companies like Apple are big places. There will be funds used for various and sometimes contradicting aims. That doesn't change the fact that sometimes they do good.
  - jariel 6y ago
    Except that they will get in return considerably more than $100M in lifetime brand and PR value, is one way to start looking at it. Also, 'throwing money at problems' has never really solved much. The best way to solve problems is to solve them in your own backyard, within the context of the system you are directly working in. The grossest inequality in the world is not in America, it's in developing nations, places where Apple manufactures and sells. Steve Jobs - with literally a one sentence email - could have changed the quality of living standards for every FoxConn employee and have knock-on effects around the world. The vast surpluses gained by Apple from having 'workers live in factories, be woken at various times during the day' are seen right in Apple's P&L. Was there really a reason for that? If Jobs were to have said: "Dear Foxconn, all apple products will be constructed in a manner that respects workers rights in these basic terms i) consistent work hours during the day ii) fair and objective oversight iii) fair wages equal to 'some function'. ... that would have changed things. Instead, we are 'marketed to with morality' so as to make Apple appear to be moral, in which case, we can ignore other material actions they take, and 'feel good and moral' about buying their products. I remember in 2000 driving down 101 in the Valley and seeing the 'Think Different' billboards featuring none other than Gandhi. Yes - literally using the moral claims of Gandhi to hustle their new Mac. It was actually a big moment for me in terms of understanding communication, it was really ridiculous, I've never really trusted them since. Great hardware though.
    - api 6y ago
      "Corporate woke" is parodied pretty viciously in HBO's Silicon Valley series. There's also some pretty gross inequality in the Bay Area, where only rich people can afford any kind of housing within less than an hour commute from where all the jobs are. All of California has this problem to varying degrees.
protomyth 6y ago
Yeah, given the continuing issues with Apple Maps, never mentioning how many enrolled members work at Apple in any capacity, and just generally ignoring any TCU when designating community colleges for Swift training; I am a bit skeptical.
cwperkins 6y ago
The Propel Center in Atlanta and a new coding program for young developers in Detroit are innovative ways at alleviating the issue of tech teams not resembling overall population, discrimination is not a creative solution and will only ever create resentment (I doubt discrimination can create longlasting equity). I commend Apple for paving the way and showing what a solution can look like.
Huwyt_Nashi019 6y ago
>Racism is the marginalization or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people Fascinating that their definition of racism is explicitly racist. In fairness to Apple, they cited the ADL as the source for their glossary of terms, and it is indeed taken verbatim from there: https://www.adl.org/education/resources/glossary-terms/education-glossary-terms https://www.adl.org/education/resources/glossary-terms/educa...
- DC1350 6y ago
  Also just not really appropriate for a global company.. Isn't their EU HQ in Ireland? They should know better than this
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Why not?
    - HarryHirsch 6y ago
      One word: Londonderry.
      - DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
        Can you elaborate? I'm interested in what you're saying, but after some quick Googling I still don't understand the significance of "Londonderry".
        HarryHirsch 6y ago
        Well, the European headquarters of Apple are in Ireland, and Derry is still suffering heavily from the Unionist-Loyalist conflict. Unemployment over twice the average in Northern Ireland, no side wants the other to get ahead, and no hope that anything will improve anytime soon. The Good Friday Agreement hasn't arrived in the town, over 20 years later.
    - 6y ago
m_ke 6y ago
Maybe they should focus on stopping their tax dodging and deal with their labor issues abroad first. A Pan-African watch face is not helping anyone get out of poverty.
jariel 6y ago
It's hard to be critical of people who want to see justice, paradoxically, I think we need to be the most skeptical when corporations which have zero problem operating and participating in them most aggressive regimes, try to use moral ethos to sell us products. It's one thing to say: "Here is our product, it works well" It's another to say: "Here is our product, we are moral, and that's a reason you should buy from us, it might make you moral as well". e.g. Do you remember the bottled water at Starbucks called 'ETHOS'? As if to say 'this is Ethical water - you don't need to be concerned abut the fact the plastic is not reusable and wasteful) I am not remotely against spiritual organization, but there's a special kind of cynicism we reserve for the moral failings of those who's job it is literally to tout morality. I don't doubt everyone at Apple wants to help in some way, but it's a pretty dangerous thing to make certain claims, and it's doubly dangerous when there are potential hypocrisies afoot. I'm cynical of this kind of marketing, I wish Apple would be less Nike about it, and more 'local community group' about it - and take a much more humble approach. Their willingness to try to turn their actions into projections of morality is a bridge too far. There is a women's shelter 100m from my flat, I see the crazy goings-on all the time, the workers there never get a hint of the credit they deserve. It's the most 'opposite' place I can imagine from the clean, austere, clinical, 'corporate morality' ethos of an Apple Store.
abellerose 6y ago
I think a lot help is needed towards the "poor" concerning the subject of justice. No matter where someone lives, there should be forms & guides on court websites for filing a lawsuit or defending oneself and currently only a few places provide that help.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

10 points by illuminated 6y ago

How's the situation in Xinjiang going? https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/29/lens-technology-apple-uighur/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/29/lens-te...

vzcx 6y ago

"Computers?"

Bostonian 6y ago

Apple has no special expertise in "Criminal Justice Reform". Some of its shareholders, employees, and customers may support less prosecution and shorter sentences, but others do not. Murder rates did spike in 2020. I am effectively an Apple shareholder through stock index funds and would prefer that it stay out of politics.

pacamara619 6y ago

These are not the droids you're looking for. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/apple-spent-90000-lobbying-lawmakers-on-uyghur-forced-labor-bill/ https://www.nationalreview.com/news/apple-spent-90000-lobbyi...

Darmody 6y ago

Virtue signalling. Apple is here for the money, they don't care about anything else. I don't blame them for that but I'm tired of seeing how the wealthy are trying to give us moral lessons while they do exactly the opposite. They want justice but they don't mind their products being manufactured by slave labour. They tell us to stop polluting while they have private jets and yachts. A good marketing campaign but you won't see them talking to people from poor neighbourhoods too see what they have to say or what are they daily struggles.

faitswulff 6y ago
If a $100M investment along these lines is virtue signaling, I'm all for more virtue signaling. Companies like Apple are big places. There will be funds used for various and sometimes contradicting aims. That doesn't change the fact that sometimes they do good.
- jariel 6y ago
  Except that they will get in return considerably more than $100M in lifetime brand and PR value, is one way to start looking at it. Also, 'throwing money at problems' has never really solved much. The best way to solve problems is to solve them in your own backyard, within the context of the system you are directly working in. The grossest inequality in the world is not in America, it's in developing nations, places where Apple manufactures and sells. Steve Jobs - with literally a one sentence email - could have changed the quality of living standards for every FoxConn employee and have knock-on effects around the world. The vast surpluses gained by Apple from having 'workers live in factories, be woken at various times during the day' are seen right in Apple's P&L. Was there really a reason for that? If Jobs were to have said: "Dear Foxconn, all apple products will be constructed in a manner that respects workers rights in these basic terms i) consistent work hours during the day ii) fair and objective oversight iii) fair wages equal to 'some function'. ... that would have changed things. Instead, we are 'marketed to with morality' so as to make Apple appear to be moral, in which case, we can ignore other material actions they take, and 'feel good and moral' about buying their products. I remember in 2000 driving down 101 in the Valley and seeing the 'Think Different' billboards featuring none other than Gandhi. Yes - literally using the moral claims of Gandhi to hustle their new Mac. It was actually a big moment for me in terms of understanding communication, it was really ridiculous, I've never really trusted them since. Great hardware though.
  - api 6y ago
    "Corporate woke" is parodied pretty viciously in HBO's Silicon Valley series. There's also some pretty gross inequality in the Bay Area, where only rich people can afford any kind of housing within less than an hour commute from where all the jobs are. All of California has this problem to varying degrees.

protomyth 6y ago

Yeah, given the continuing issues with Apple Maps, never mentioning how many enrolled members work at Apple in any capacity, and just generally ignoring any TCU when designating community colleges for Swift training; I am a bit skeptical.

cwperkins 6y ago

The Propel Center in Atlanta and a new coding program for young developers in Detroit are innovative ways at alleviating the issue of tech teams not resembling overall population, discrimination is not a creative solution and will only ever create resentment (I doubt discrimination can create longlasting equity). I commend Apple for paving the way and showing what a solution can look like.

Huwyt_Nashi019 6y ago

>Racism is the marginalization or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people Fascinating that their definition of racism is explicitly racist. In fairness to Apple, they cited the ADL as the source for their glossary of terms, and it is indeed taken verbatim from there: https://www.adl.org/education/resources/glossary-terms/education-glossary-terms https://www.adl.org/education/resources/glossary-terms/educa...

DC1350 6y ago
Also just not really appropriate for a global company.. Isn't their EU HQ in Ireland? They should know better than this
- pjc50 6y ago
  Why not?
  - HarryHirsch 6y ago
    One word: Londonderry.
    - DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
      Can you elaborate? I'm interested in what you're saying, but after some quick Googling I still don't understand the significance of "Londonderry".
      - HarryHirsch 6y ago
        Well, the European headquarters of Apple are in Ireland, and Derry is still suffering heavily from the Unionist-Loyalist conflict. Unemployment over twice the average in Northern Ireland, no side wants the other to get ahead, and no hope that anything will improve anytime soon. The Good Friday Agreement hasn't arrived in the town, over 20 years later.
  - 6y ago

m_ke 6y ago

Maybe they should focus on stopping their tax dodging and deal with their labor issues abroad first. A Pan-African watch face is not helping anyone get out of poverty.

jariel 6y ago

It's hard to be critical of people who want to see justice, paradoxically, I think we need to be the most skeptical when corporations which have zero problem operating and participating in them most aggressive regimes, try to use moral ethos to sell us products. It's one thing to say: "Here is our product, it works well" It's another to say: "Here is our product, we are moral, and that's a reason you should buy from us, it might make you moral as well". e.g. Do you remember the bottled water at Starbucks called 'ETHOS'? As if to say 'this is Ethical water - you don't need to be concerned abut the fact the plastic is not reusable and wasteful) I am not remotely against spiritual organization, but there's a special kind of cynicism we reserve for the moral failings of those who's job it is literally to tout morality. I don't doubt everyone at Apple wants to help in some way, but it's a pretty dangerous thing to make certain claims, and it's doubly dangerous when there are potential hypocrisies afoot. I'm cynical of this kind of marketing, I wish Apple would be less Nike about it, and more 'local community group' about it - and take a much more humble approach. Their willingness to try to turn their actions into projections of morality is a bridge too far. There is a women's shelter 100m from my flat, I see the crazy goings-on all the time, the workers there never get a hint of the credit they deserve. It's the most 'opposite' place I can imagine from the clean, austere, clinical, 'corporate morality' ethos of an Apple Store.

abellerose 6y ago

I think a lot help is needed towards the "poor" concerning the subject of justice. No matter where someone lives, there should be forms & guides on court websites for filing a lawsuit or defending oneself and currently only a few places provide that help.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]