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Hetzner have also just announced 5950X servers at €99/mo ($120 USD/mo), bringing Zen 3 to the data center early. The raw power you can get these days for peanu

by nly 6y ago

Hetzner have also just announced 5950X servers at €99/mo ($120 USD/mo), bringing Zen 3 to the data center early. The raw power you can get these days for peanuts/mo if you go for bare metal is impressive.

speedgoose 6y ago
On AWS for the same price you get nothing but crap.
- klohto 6y ago
  You get what you pay for. Optimize your architecture and you can do r6gd.4xlarge at $0.3174/hour or ~189€/month. I don’t understand comparing AWS to Hetzner. If you want just bare-metal there are much better clouds.
  - speedgoose 6y ago
    You can't really compare an ARM AWS vCPU to a bare-metal Ryzen 9 core though. And the AWS offer is missing storage and bandwidth, which are extremely expensive if you want something comparable.
    - klohto 6y ago
      That's why I choose the `d` EC2. They come with NVMe SSD ephemeral storage and in terms of bandwidth, AWS will beat it anyway. R6 is around 10Gbps if I remember correctly.
      - speedgoose 6y ago
        With 8TB of not throttled IO ?
        klohto 6y ago
        How are you going to throttle local storage on bare-metal exactly? Ephemeral isn't over network, it's directly attached. So yes, even 8TB.
        speedgoose 6y ago
        Yes the local storage is not throttled on bare-metal. Maybe these new AWS instance with ephemeral storage are not throttled as well, I can't find the information. Anyway, it's not 8TB but 1TB and on the AWS price calculator it costs 650€ for this instance. You may have access to special prices.
      - e12e 6y ago
        Hetzner gives you 20TB/month outgoing bw + 1euro/TB if you add 39 euro for 10gbps uplink - or un-metered 1gbps bw. Even if you have "up to 10 gbps" bw from aws - it's going to be much more expensive! And if you just need low latency (and "no" data), 1 gbps would probably serve you just as well? So at those prices (essentially no bandwidth) - you could get two physical servers from hetzner... Fwiw i agree comparing aws to dedicated doesn't make much sense - but unless flexibility is important - I don't see aws comming out on top from such a simple comparison.
  - martinald 6y ago
    The thing is though for many workloads (I'd even say most) applications get I/O constrained way quicker than CPU, so scaling CPU will not give you the boost that you expect on AWS and the other big cloud providers. Keep in mind that PCIe4 NVMes can do 5-7GB/sec (gigabytes - not gigabits) read and write, with up to 500K IOPS. Compare that to RDS on AWS which charges a comical $0.10 per IOPS-month, so just for IO it would be $50k/month (and for many DBs IOPS are more important than CPU) to meet the performance of one NVMe SSD, which can be bought retail for probably $200. I don't think I've ever seen such ridiculous pricing. I do understand AWS can be more expensive, but it is just outrageous margin for IO performance (and external bandwidth, but that's a whole other story!).
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    > I don’t understand comparing AWS to Hetzner. If you want just bare-metal there are much better clouds. Share, please? I'd love to get off of Hetzner, but their prices absolutely destroy everything else
mhh__ 6y ago
The sheer amount of know-how required to not shoot yourself in the foot is intimidating to me at least - i.e. I am much more comfortable working on a compiler than setting up a server in a way that it doesn't get pwned I want to get some kind of CI going that can spot cache miss hotspots, and other things like that (ideally implementing Intel TMA) - the price is reasonable, the software is hard but solved, but I literally have no idea how to run (or better, how not to run) a bare metal server safely.
- nly 6y ago
  Hosting for most companies should be a commodity. I've seen entire businesses supporting double digit employees run off single $20/mo DO droplets, with just the builtin backup/snapshot capability used for redundancy. One of these had 50,000 concurrent realtime API users on such a droplet. Ultimately what is most important is knowing your needs and how quickly you can recover from disaster, not how much you spend on infrastructure. Simulating the "Ok we came in to the office this morning and Digital Ocean no longer existed" scenario is more valuable to most small businesses than just throwing money at over-engineered AWS solutions.
- SXX 6y ago
  I'm in no way a person who run some cluster on bare metal servers, but managing them are not any different than cloud compute instance. Only extra thing you need is to have some monitoring for SMART status of your drive. > I am much more comfortable working on a compiler than setting up a server in a way that it doesn't get pwned 99% of the time all you need is to have firewall up, password login off and unattended upgrades enabled. It's will literally never get pwned then.
  - rovr138 6y ago
    I add fail2ban as good measure too. I don't know about literally, but it helps.
    - SXX 6y ago
      It's can certainly be useful if you use anything with password auth or just want to avoid logs full of bots, but otherwise just change default SSH port.

by nly 6y ago

speedgoose 6y ago

On AWS for the same price you get nothing but crap.

klohto 6y ago
You get what you pay for. Optimize your architecture and you can do r6gd.4xlarge at $0.3174/hour or ~189€/month. I don’t understand comparing AWS to Hetzner. If you want just bare-metal there are much better clouds.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  You can't really compare an ARM AWS vCPU to a bare-metal Ryzen 9 core though. And the AWS offer is missing storage and bandwidth, which are extremely expensive if you want something comparable.
  - klohto 6y ago
    That's why I choose the `d` EC2. They come with NVMe SSD ephemeral storage and in terms of bandwidth, AWS will beat it anyway. R6 is around 10Gbps if I remember correctly.
    - speedgoose 6y ago
      With 8TB of not throttled IO ?
      - klohto 6y ago
        How are you going to throttle local storage on bare-metal exactly? Ephemeral isn't over network, it's directly attached. So yes, even 8TB.
        speedgoose 6y ago
        Yes the local storage is not throttled on bare-metal. Maybe these new AWS instance with ephemeral storage are not throttled as well, I can't find the information. Anyway, it's not 8TB but 1TB and on the AWS price calculator it costs 650€ for this instance. You may have access to special prices.
    - e12e 6y ago
      Hetzner gives you 20TB/month outgoing bw + 1euro/TB if you add 39 euro for 10gbps uplink - or un-metered 1gbps bw. Even if you have "up to 10 gbps" bw from aws - it's going to be much more expensive! And if you just need low latency (and "no" data), 1 gbps would probably serve you just as well? So at those prices (essentially no bandwidth) - you could get two physical servers from hetzner... Fwiw i agree comparing aws to dedicated doesn't make much sense - but unless flexibility is important - I don't see aws comming out on top from such a simple comparison.
- martinald 6y ago
  The thing is though for many workloads (I'd even say most) applications get I/O constrained way quicker than CPU, so scaling CPU will not give you the boost that you expect on AWS and the other big cloud providers. Keep in mind that PCIe4 NVMes can do 5-7GB/sec (gigabytes - not gigabits) read and write, with up to 500K IOPS. Compare that to RDS on AWS which charges a comical $0.10 per IOPS-month, so just for IO it would be $50k/month (and for many DBs IOPS are more important than CPU) to meet the performance of one NVMe SSD, which can be bought retail for probably $200. I don't think I've ever seen such ridiculous pricing. I do understand AWS can be more expensive, but it is just outrageous margin for IO performance (and external bandwidth, but that's a whole other story!).
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  > I don’t understand comparing AWS to Hetzner. If you want just bare-metal there are much better clouds. Share, please? I'd love to get off of Hetzner, but their prices absolutely destroy everything else

mhh__ 6y ago

The sheer amount of know-how required to not shoot yourself in the foot is intimidating to me at least - i.e. I am much more comfortable working on a compiler than setting up a server in a way that it doesn't get pwned I want to get some kind of CI going that can spot cache miss hotspots, and other things like that (ideally implementing Intel TMA) - the price is reasonable, the software is hard but solved, but I literally have no idea how to run (or better, how not to run) a bare metal server safely.

nly 6y ago
Hosting for most companies should be a commodity. I've seen entire businesses supporting double digit employees run off single $20/mo DO droplets, with just the builtin backup/snapshot capability used for redundancy. One of these had 50,000 concurrent realtime API users on such a droplet. Ultimately what is most important is knowing your needs and how quickly you can recover from disaster, not how much you spend on infrastructure. Simulating the "Ok we came in to the office this morning and Digital Ocean no longer existed" scenario is more valuable to most small businesses than just throwing money at over-engineered AWS solutions.
SXX 6y ago
I'm in no way a person who run some cluster on bare metal servers, but managing them are not any different than cloud compute instance. Only extra thing you need is to have some monitoring for SMART status of your drive. > I am much more comfortable working on a compiler than setting up a server in a way that it doesn't get pwned 99% of the time all you need is to have firewall up, password login off and unattended upgrades enabled. It's will literally never get pwned then.
- rovr138 6y ago
  I add fail2ban as good measure too. I don't know about literally, but it helps.
  - SXX 6y ago
    It's can certainly be useful if you use anything with password auth or just want to avoid logs full of bots, but otherwise just change default SSH port.