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A lot of comments here are warning about the addictive properties of stimulant medications. For folks without ADHD, you should know that stimulants, like Rital

A lot of comments here are warning about the addictive properties of stimulant medications. For folks without ADHD, you should know that stimulants, like Ritalin and Adderall, do not usually cause the same response as in non-ADHD people. I've spoken with many people on stimulants, and none of them enjoy taking the medication, beyond what it has done to improve their lives. Furthermore, most ADHD people develop tolerance to medication over long periods of time -- eventually the drug does little-to-nothing itself. For myself, taking even high doses of a Adderall regularly produces no result -- might as well be taking sugar pills. I have to take them periodically (a few times a week at most) to get any sort of benefit. The proper medication and dosage should not make you feel "high" -- if anything it's almost the opposite. You get some clarity, an ability to direct your focus without a thousand distractions a minute, and perhaps even a sense of time. I let some non-ADHD friends try a low dose of Ritalin when I had switched off of it and had some left over, and they were bouncing off the fucking walls -- I would strongly not recommend taking stimulants unless medically necessary. For people with ADHD, they can be truly life saving. For recreational use, avoid.

xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
I'll add that the first doctor I went to see about my issues made it clear that he was willing to prescribe me stimulants without a strong diagnosis, which frankly disturbed me greatly. I had to make it clear I was interested in pursuing a proper diagnosis, and that I wasn't just looking for some help to "cram" for a test or something, which apparently would have been good enough for a prescription. Getting a proper diagnosis is a royal pain in the ass, but worth it. You shouldn't be screwing around with these drugs for fun.
renewiltord 6y ago
Yeah, my first adderall came from a friend who uses it to party. I can't see how. It makes me much quieter. Partying on it is something I can't even imagine.
- xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
  No kidding. I don't even mix it with caffeine because it makes me feel terrible. Alcohol is tolerable, but I still try to avoid mixing stuff. Luckily most of it's out of my system by the evenings anyways.
- deleted 6y ago
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- wk_end 6y ago
  My personal experience was that dextroamphetamine helped my (pretty severe) social anxiety by calming me. I don't know if I'd call it "partying", but I've functioned much better at social gatherings when taking therapeutic doses of it. I've been considering trying to get a prescription for years, but I don't present most typical symptoms of ADD (maybe some inattentive ones?) so I suspect psychiatrists would be reluctant and just try to get me onto SSRIs, which have done nothing for me.
  - taneq 6y ago
    Part of what makes it so difficult to diagnose adult ADHD is that most adults come up with a range of adaptive behaviours to try and mitigate the effects of the disorder. So just because you don't look like you have stereotypical ADHD doesn't mean you're not compensating for them - have a think about your various coping mechanisms and whether they're covering for some of those symptoms.
  - heavenlyblue 6y ago
    > My personal experience was that dextroamphetamine helped my (pretty severe) social anxiety by calming me. This is what Cocaine, MDMA or alcohol in reasonable doses would do to you. Stimulants generally do this to everyone.
    - wk_end 6y ago
      Yeah, that might check out too. I was sort of responding to the claims 1) that non-ADHD people "bounce off the walls" when using stimulants and/or 2) that ADHD people couldn't use stimulants socially because it calms and focuses them rather than amping them up. Either I'm in the former category, and then claim 1 doesn't really track because it genuinely is a calming sensation for non-ADHD people (sample size 1, myself), or I'm in the latter category and then claim 2 doesn't track because stims really can help ADHD sufferers (same methodology) with socializing.
beaugunderson 6y ago
I see this repeated often and I've never been able to find a source for it. I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. > Stimulant drugs do improve the ability (even without ADHD) to focus and pay attention. One function, which is reliably improved by stimulant medications, is sustained attention, or vigilance. Stimulants improve sustained, focused attention, but “selective attention” and “distractibility” may be worsened, possibly because of a drug induced increase in impulsivity. [1] I currently take a small dose (5mg) of Evekeo with only very mild side effects. On 30mg of Adderall XR I felt some euphoria for the first two weeks and the insomnia was pretty bad for the first week or so. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/
- aneemzic 6y ago
  >I see this repeated often and I've never been able to find a source for it. I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. I'm sorry but you clearly haven't even tried to research the subject, so I'm not surprised you don't believe it. People with ADHD have been scientifically proven to have deficiencies in specific neurotransmitters, namely norepinephrine and dopamine. There's multiple studies on ADHD and reward pathways you could find with a simple google search. If you understand how amphetamine based stimulants such as adderall work, you'll know these are 2 of the major neurotransmitters that they target along with serotonin. The entire reason for using these types of medications is to improve availability of neurotransmitters to those with abnormal production that impedes cognitive function. Sure people with normal levels can take stimulants and see effects, since these drugs don't balance levels, they just increase them. In a person with normal dopamine production it's just going to lead to an imbalance, and result in the euphoria feeling they're seeking, whether they want to admit it or not. Edit: the article you posted doesn't even support your argument. It seems in people without ADHD, the medication resulted in increased impulsivity and distractibility.Most likely as a result of abnormal levels of norepinephrine. This is evidence of the drug having literally the opposite of it's intended effect when taken by people without ADHD.
  - beaugunderson 6y ago
bootstrapping 6y ago
I'll echo this; I'm a serial founder who was diagnosed with ADHD in his mid-forties. The stimulant medications do not make me "high", do not provide any kind of buzz. Rather, they have a moderating effect. Explaining this requires correcting the misunderstandings in the public realm of how adult ADHD presents, but in nutshell: * The (largely mental) hyperactivity is controllable, that is, I retain my creative ideas generation and interest in new things, but I am no longer governed by it, and * The rarely discussed hyperfocus behaviour (which I frankly regard as a superpower) is more easily snapped out of. To the uninformed, the most paradoxical outcome is that I can take a powerful stimulant medication, lie down in bed, and fall asleep easily, when normally I'd be staring at the ceiling pondering anything from CSS to soldering and unable to sleep for the rush of ideas. This response to medication is not diagnostic, but it is indicative that the medication I have is correct. Moreover it allows me to both retain the two traits that have made me a successful systems maker, but permits a less chaotic engagement with the neurotypical-oriented processes of modern human society, so for example I renew my passport before it expires. I self-medicated with a variety of over-the-counter substances for decades, including nicotine, sugar, and coffee. I am super grateful for the medication since I have now dropped the nicotine and sugar. My psychiatrist believes the condition is a) misnamed, and would be better titled "Attention Difference Disorder", and b) points out that the twin traits of rapid ideas switching and hyperfocus are only a problem in some aspects of engagement with modern society and that in an pre-agrarian society they'd be excellent traits for a hunter.
- incomplete 6y ago
  i generally hate short, banal replies, but here we go: this. all of this. yes. :)
  - ADHDthrow2323 6y ago
    I second that.
    - nullsense 6y ago
      Me too
Diederich 6y ago
I have ADHD, and I've been treating it with meds for over 15 years now. > dosage should not make you feel "high" -- if anything it's almost the opposite Even when I was young and fit, many years before I started taking any meds, my blood pressure and pulse rate were consistently on the high side. I've always had what could be called somewhat of a 'jittery' or 'high strung' personality. In my 30s, I started taking a low dose of Ritalin, and it made a hell of a difference. For the first time in my life, I was actually, fundamentally calm. I gathered some pretty detailed data over a pretty long period of time, and there was an iron-clad correlation: when the Ritalin was in my blood stream, my blood pressure and heart rate were lower. > most ADHD people develop tolerance to medication over long periods of time From the beginning, in order to defend against this possibility, I always took the meds sparingly, only on work days, and not all of them. For a number of years, I organized my schedule around taking the meds three days a week. On those three days, I did most of my deeper, focused software development. On the other work days, I'd focus more on meetings, digging into operational issues, troubleshooting, basically everything except deep focused software development. Prior to starting the meds, I had many successful years in technology at various organizations. That continued after the meds, but with one big difference: while I was able to sit down and focus before the meds, it took an enormous amount of effort and energy. I'd come home from work and immediately nap for an hour before waking up with enough mental energy to go about the rest of my evening. On the meds, my total ability to focus was roughly the same, but it didn't take nearly as much energy. A 9 hour day at work would not leave me drained. I've always had the fortune of having the prescribing docs break up my maximum daily meds into many small dosed tablets, which gave me a lot of flexibility. Thankfully, after all this time, the meds still work very well for me.
- nicoburns 6y ago
  > A 9 hour day at work would not leave me drained. I'd come home from work and immediately nap for an hour before waking up with enough mental energy to go about the rest of my evening. Isn't that normal? That's certainly been my experience of work over the last decade. And I haven't even been working 9 hour days (more like 7.5 on average).
  - 6y ago
hnick 6y ago
Do doctors suggest some kind of cycling regime? I'd imagine I would probably take it on weekdays, then skip it on weekends and holidays. Not sure if that would be enough though.
- cwkoss 6y ago
  I believe 'weekends off' is a common suggestion from doctors prescribing these types of medications for ADHD
ehwhyreally 6y ago
For me, Ritalin works as it should, just focusing. dextroamphetamine on the other hand gets me all hyped up.
- AnthonBerg 6y ago
  The difference between people is so subtle and so profound. For me, dextroamphetamine brings a still and composed calmness upon the world. Not euphora, just a calmness.
  - rubicon33 6y ago
    How about heart rate and blood pressure? I get the same reaction as you - I'm calm, still, patient. Much more "present" with my wife and far less likely to argue. If I need to plan, or organize something, the initial feeling of "oof" is no longer there. I just do the task. I have however noticed that my heart rate (normally in the low 50s) hovers in the low 60s. I assume (but have not checked) that my blood pressure is also increasing. Both of these things are concerning.
    - AnthonBerg 6y ago
      Blood pressure is normal; Slightly lower than before. Heart rate is up a bit - from about 60 to about 67 resting heart rate - BUT the two years I have been prescribed lisdexamfetamine have brought exceptionally and unusually stressful personal events and I've unfortunately not been able to exercise as much as before. The medicine has certainly helped us cope, however!
rossnordby 6y ago
I've often wondered- are there solid studies on responses to stimulant medications varying over different groups? It's definitely true that there is wide individual variance (modafinil does nothing but disrupt my sleep and make me more sleepy over time, alas), but it is less clear to me that the differences follow cleanly along boundaries like ADHD/not ADHD. I don't have ADHD, but I am prescribed Ritalin to help with a sleep disorder. There's no high, euphoria, or hyperactivity, just a boost to wakefulness and general mental function. Descriptions of the effect from people with ADHD sound familiar, just starting from a different baseline.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  Not really. It’s true that ADHD patients will likely react differently to stimulants, but the exact differences have been greatly exaggerated online. There are some studies showing that some people respond better to Ritalin than Adderall and vice versa. Prescribers should try switching medications if the patient doesn’t respond. Most people will experience increased focus when first taking stimulants, ADHD or not. Many ADHD patients will experience euphoria with their first doses. The idea that ADHD people have polar opposite responses to medication is largely a myth. Most long-term patients don’t identify with the euphoric or energizing comments because they’ve built a tolerance to those effects. There’s nothing wrong with that, because the therapeutic value doesn’t derive from inducing euphoria. However, a drug-naive college student taking a double dose of Adderall will certainly be buzzing. For a short while. They will then suffer a rebound on the following day or days. There isn’t really a free lunch here. The challenge is that non-ADHD people often try Adderall once, like the effects, and assume a positive response means they have ADHD. That’s blatantly wrong, but it has lead to many people pursuing unnecessary stimulant prescriptions in hopes of feeling that way every day. They are always disappointed when they discover that the long-term effects are very different than those first experience effects.
  - xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
    I don't disagree with anything you've written, but none of it matches my experience, which is interesting.
  - 6y ago
rustybelt 6y ago
Are you sure this isn't just due to habituation? I was diagnosed ADHD in gradeschool and definitely experienced some euphoric side effects when starting on both Ritalin and Adderall. They quickly subsided after a few days/weeks on the medications but my ADHD brain still reacted that way at first. I tried taking Adderall again as an adult for a few months (after a decade being off the drug) and had a similar experience.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  Habituation is definitely part of it. Many prescribers will also start patients on very low doses and titration up to minimize the distraction of the euphoric effects. Unfortunately, many mew ADHD patients mistake the initial euphoric effects for the medication “working” and get frustrated when the effects go away. They start chasing bigger prescriptions, shopping around for prescribers willing to give higher doses, doubling up doses and so on. Everyone going into stimulant treatment should know that excessive stimulant dosing can worsen focus. If you’ve ever seen someone abusing stimulants, you’ll know exactly what this means. People on too high of a dose tend to be overly energetic, or overly focused on the wrong things. Ideally, you want to be on the lowest dose you can get away with. Contrary to what is often repeated online, it’s best to take the medication continuously rather than skipping days. The medication should blend into the background while you work on improving ADHD. Don’t fall into the trap of leaning on the stimulant to solve everything for you.
  - username90 6y ago
    > Contrary to what is often repeated online, it’s best to take the medication continuously rather than skipping days. I don't like being on stimulants though. When I'm on stimulants I can't just let my thoughts wander and do whatever feels right at the moment, and I really like that part. If I don't have work to do I greatly prefer not being on them. The only time I feel the need to abuse them is when I am over burdened with work and I feel I need the extra focus to complete tasks. At those times I try to do the opposite, quit taking the medicine and calm down and tell people that I don't have time to do the tasks now.
null000 6y ago
Counter-anecdote: I was diagnosed sixish months ago, prescribed medication about 3 months ago. The meds don't have the same high of alcohol or weed, but there's definitely an occasional deep sense of calm and wellness - one that's hard not to want, being my chronically depressed self. Definitely enough to set off my "never abuse this, it will end badly" mental alarm Otherwise though, it checks all the usual boxes - way easier to sit still and be quiet, way easier to do the thing I intended to do when I sat down to do it, way easier to get in and out of focus. Also improved my sleep schedule a surprising amount - between it and melatonin, I've moved from 6am-3pm to ~12am-8:30am, which is wildly outside any of the expectations I've seen set for pharmaceutical remedies, and puts me firmly in 'able to hold a normal adult job without killing yourself through sleep deprevation' territory. Honestly almost annoying it has such a positive effect since the practical difference between that and addiction are pretty minimal on a short-term basis. I'm deeply uncomfortable with the idea of having to go without it or something filling the same brain-holes for a long period of time precisely because I'm basically worthless without it, in a way I didn't really come to appreciate until after starting medication.
- rubicon33 6y ago
  > occasional deep sense of calm and wellness I've always assumed that this is the "right" response? When people talk about stimulant medication and ADHD, the reactions tend to fall into two categories: Hypes you up, stimulates you, makes you talk fast and move fast, etc... Or calms you down, soothes you, allows you to think clearly, methodically, etc.... I bring this up because it's concerning to me that the "right" response is setting off "never abuse this" alarms. Is it the right response, or is it not? Personally, I get that same sense of calm and wellbeing. It's why the drug works. My mind quiets down, my ability to hold attention increases dramatically, and my sense of well being ensues. I speak slower and calmer. I am less likely to argue with my spouse. Yes, I feel "good" but I've always assumed that's what its like to feel normal. Normal people get their prefrontal cortex for free, mine is unlocked through a drug.
  - afarviral 6y ago
    I think film and TV are partly responsible for this idea. From experience/observation euphoria (sense of wellbeing) is the primary effect of stimulants, not acting hyper. The rest are just a soup of possible effects that vary wildly.
steve_adams_86 6y ago
I tend to take weeks or months between prescriptions. It's not addictive in the slightest for me. If my family didn't benefit as much from me taking it, I would never take it again.
throwaway289283 6y ago
> For folks without ADHD, you should know that stimulants, like Ritalin and Adderall, do not usually cause the same response as in non-ADHD people. I can confirm; I have ADHD and this even applies to stronger stimulants like cocaine. Cocaine doesn't do much for me, so I never understood why my friends were always bouncing off the walls while I was just chilling, like "what's the big deal with this drug". I didn't get it until I was diagnosed with ADHD and understood how our brains are wired differently.
- xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
  Yes, I have a good friend who stopped taking prescription medicine for his severe ADHD long ago. In school he self-medicated with lots of drugs, and the drugs never affected him the same way as others. Now he just smokes a ton of weed everyday, but you would never know it, he's very normal, stable. Off weed? He's a mess, bouncing off the walls.
- throwawaydhd 6y ago
  Same here. In fact, when the psychiatrist was taking history in my initial screening, when I mentioned I'd taken cocaine but been disappointed with its lack of euphoric effect despite my friends enjoying it (it just made my face numb), she said that sort of previous reaction to stimulants was common in her ADHD diagnosed patients. When I started on Vyvanse after diagnosis, the biggest effect I noticed at first was that my mind just felt quite calm compared to usual. No high or anything like that, just .. not as many uncontrollable thoughts rushing around my mind like they usually do.
sizzle 6y ago
My fear is developing alzheimers or parkinsons disease messing with these dopamine receptors for decades, are we screwing ourselves over long term? I fear developing early onset dementia too. I saw there was a study that linked neurodegenerative disease to long term dopamine stimulants. Can anyone break down the neuroscience for me and any meta-analyses studies on ADHD amph stims effect on early onset neurodegenerative disease?
- username90 6y ago
  Looks like they actually protects against Parkinson's. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20089748v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20089748v... I found no relationships with Alzheimer's. The only big negative found seems to be blood pressure, but you can manage that just by keeping your weight in check and exercising regularly. I take medication and my blood pressure is at normal levels, I go for regular checkups.
  - slaymaker1907 6y ago
    Thank you for the link. When I started seeing my current doctor, they tried scare mongering by claiming stimulants can cause Parkinsons. There is a study to back this up [1,2], but I was skeptical of it since they didn't seem to control for the fact that someone with ADHD but not on stimulants could either have less intense ADHD or perhaps have some other confounding condition. The study authors actually mention: "The association of ADHD patients prescribed psychostimulants with higher risk of diseases of the basal ganglia and cerebellum may reflect a more severe ADHD phenotype rather than a direct association between prescribed stimulant use and basal ganglia or cerebellum disorders."[2] It's somewhat encouraging to see that this seems to be true and increased chance of Parkinson's is likely due to the severity of ADHD and not due to medication which helps people with ADHD be functional. [1]: https://healthcare.utah.edu/publicaffairs/news/2018/09/adhd-parkinsons.php https://healthcare.utah.edu/publicaffairs/news/2018/09/adhd-... [2]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30209407/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30209407/
hntrader 6y ago
Second the comment on Ritalin among non-ADHD. Couldn't tell the difference between that and illicit speed on the street. Dry mouth, manic, euphoric.
treeman79 6y ago
Same experience. Per doctor, people with adhd don’t find adderall. addicting. My experience aligns with this. When I take one I feel normal. Like how I should be in society. Unfortunately it causes me vascular inflammation as headaches. So had to give it up. I use a non stimulant one now. Seems to be helping. My daughter just started Vyvanse. Report from teachers is that her behavior is dramatically better.
stared 6y ago
I have ADHD, and I use Modafinil or Armodafinil at low doses (50+50mg or 75mg, respectively). It does not make "high" in any sense. It does not create dependency (unlike, say, coffee). If I don't take it (and I often don't), there are no negative effects, just a lack of the positive. Metylofenidat helps me a bit, but it gives "deadline-like focus". Focus, but rush, with increased anxiety. (Ar)modafinil gives sniper-like focus. Decreased anxiety and emotional reactiveness, while still maintaining full emotional clarity. Non-deadline flow. The first time I took Modafinil, I didn't feel like "on drugs". I felt the opposite - for the first time distractions (like checking FB every a few minutes) were not dopamine hits I craved. I understood a lot about "other people" and things people kept telling me for two decades. It seems that being less distractible was an everyday experience. The only downside I saw is that it needs to be taken well before bedtime (as in: morning, noon) and that it makes one way less social (immunity to jokes, increased sensory sensitivity, "OK, but what's your point" approach to conversations, etc). Readings: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/02/16/nootropics-survey-results-and-analysis/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/02/16/nootropics-survey-resu... and https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil
chasd00 6y ago
For me, the medicine (lowish dose of adderall) gives me a sense of peace Without it my mind races and the hyper-everything is exhausting. My wife has tried it and it had the opposite effect on her. For me, the stimulant is very calming.
throwawayadhd2 6y ago
I have been prescribed with methylphenidate last year. I don’t think I have ADHD but i want to take ADHD drugs to help with focusing. So I think I can be categorized as the Non-ADHD people. I definitely feel an euphoric high when I take it, although it is less intense than MDMA, marijuana, or even alcohol. You are correct to point out it doesn’t really help me focus more or improve performance. Its smart drug reputation is really misleading. I found it less potent than coffee, which makes me very focused. It’s most noticeable effectiveness is the suppression of my appetite and sleeplessness. When I am on it, I don’t feel hungry or sleepy at all.
- throwawayadhd2 6y ago
  One of the reasons I wanted to start using them is I have over the years built too high of a tolerance and reliance on caffeine. I couldn’t work without drinking an insane amount of coffee, which makes me sleepless. I plan to alternate between adhd drugs and caffeine.
still_grokking 6y ago
I would question that there is a substantial difference. Amphetamine does not necessary make you "high", even without having ADHD. Only if you're not used to it there is this "bouncing off the fucking walls" effect. But it goes away if you know this effect already. Than amphetamines can increase focus, and make you chill instead of hyper-active. That's why people take it to study for example actually. After a few days of continual use only the increased focus effect stays. But it doesn't have almost any effect on one's mood any more. Actually it can even cause a significant drop in mood. Still it's addictive. Like tee or coffee, which won't make you feel full of energy any more when your addicted, it just becomes a necessity to "function". You can show all physical symptoms of "being sky-high on speed" like pupil dilation and such, but just go to sleep for example. I don't question that the effects of stimulants like amphetamines may help overcome some medical conditions, only that I don't think that the effects are much different in otherwise healthy individuals.
- fossuser 6y ago
  This is my position too - I’m pretty skeptical of the “ADHD people have a different response to stimulants”. Stimulants help everyone focus, it’s why people drink coffee. Everyone would perform better on a low dose Ritalin. I think people just rationalize a special need for them. Erdos famously took amphetamines. I’d buy people have variable baselines, but I think everyone would benefit from stimulants if they could take them.
jklinger410 6y ago
>I let some non-ADHD friends try a low dose of Ritalin when I had switched off of it and had some left over, and they were bouncing off the fucking walls -- I would strongly not recommend taking stimulants unless medically necessary. >For people with ADHD, they can be truly life saving. For recreational use, avoid. Just so you are aware, amphetamines are and have been used widely, and successfully, by people without ADD/ADHD. It has addictive qualities for sure, but I appreciate that people are allowed to try whatever substances they would like to try.
eyelidlessness 6y ago
> A lot of comments here are warning about the addictive properties of stimulant medications. Beyond everything else you've said which is all correct and reflects my experience, I want to point out something that doesn't seem well known in the general fabric of the ADHD topic: Addiction and substance abuse are a common trait in adult undiagnosed/untreated cases. Alcohol abuse, amphetamine abuse, you name it. I can speak from personal experience here: before I understood I had a real chemical imbalance affecting my whole life, I had used and abused alcohol to the point it significantly damaged my life, and some important relationships. I can't say for sure that wouldn't have happened if I'd been diagnosed and treated earlier, but I can say the knee-jerk reaction about medically prescribed treatment that has very little risk of abuse/addiction is inappropriate given the outcome that's much more likely without treatment.
matheusmoreira 6y ago
> ADHD people develop tolerance to medication over long periods of time Yes! I took Vyvanse for a little over a year. It was the best thing ever at first. The effects got progressively weaker until I could no longer justify using it due to the cardiovascular risk. Now I only take it before a high pressure test or performance. Wish I could go back in time and take that drug again as if it was the first time... > The proper medication and dosage should not make you feel "high" This high is correlated with how fast the stimulant enters the brain. Drugs that enter the brain quickly and in large quantities often give this subjective experience and they're more addictive because of it. Route of administration can influence this. Safer drugs with lower abuse potential are designed to be released steadily in lower quantities over a long period of time. Vyvanse is just an Adderall that gets released slowly over a long period of time. Therefore it has lower abuse potential than Adderall.
Blikkentrekker 6y ago
> The proper medication and dosage should not make you feel "high" -- if anything it's almost the opposite. You get some clarity, an ability to direct your focus without a thousand distractions a minute, and perhaps even a sense of time. Is this not aso a common effect on the non a.d.h.d. sufferer,? which is why it is so commonly taken on exams, as a means to increase performance. > For people with ADHD, they can be truly life saving. For recreational use, avoid. Avoid it more than any other recreational drug?
samatman 6y ago
Real talk: the difference between medicinal and recreational use of amphetamines is about 70 to 95mg. Take 5-30 mg of Dexedrine, you'll be focused, a bit euphoric, maybe some jaw tension and anorexia. You'll get a lot done. Mild crash? It's a risk. Smoke a point of meth and you'll be taking apart your toaster in no time. That's 100mg for those of you who grew up on the right side of the tracks. I'm diagnosed ADHD, by the way. I prefer modafinil over amphetamines, I find the high milder, the wakefulness promotion is a nice bonus, it lasts longer too. But this is, to be frank, what we used to call an old wives' tale. There is no medical basis for saying that stimulants hit ADHD brains differently. It seems to be a combination of wishful thinking, and doctors choosing to not let the general public know that low doses of stimulants will improve their focus and executive function as well. Honestly I think that's a pity. Stimulants are a useful adjunct for productive work, at a reasonable dose. America did just fine, for decades, with de-facto legal amphetamine, nor has criminalizing it done much of anything to blunt the epidemic of abuse. The difference between ADHD and the elusive "normal brain" is that a lot of us need our meds to function. I've taken a few months off, even a few years at one point, and looking back it was a disaster. I still take weekends off whenever I can, and the lowest dose I think I can get away with.
- Baeocystin 6y ago
  Scott Alexander recently wrote about the effects of different amphetamines, which are something he has long clinical experience with in his practice. It is well-worth the read for the curious (the history of how Adderall came to be was a genuine surprise), and it echoes much of what samatman said. https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
> For myself, taking even high doses of a Adderall regularly produces no result -- might as well be taking sugar pills. I have to take them periodically (a few times a week at most) to get any sort of benefit. My girlfriend is on a slow release ADHD medication, once a day; for her, it has to be a daily thing because else it just stops working. Is adderall a slow release one? May be more beneficial. That said, what effect are you expecting? She describes the main effect of her medication to be a mood stabilizer.
hda111 6y ago
ADHD medications can have severe side effects like psychosis. I would also recommend to avoid them if possible. I myself don’t have ADHD but I know several psychosis cases from people diagnosed with ADHD. It makes a lot of sense that this medication is hard to get in most countries.

xyzzy_plugh 6y ago

I'll add that the first doctor I went to see about my issues made it clear that he was willing to prescribe me stimulants without a strong diagnosis, which frankly disturbed me greatly. I had to make it clear I was interested in pursuing a proper diagnosis, and that I wasn't just looking for some help to "cram" for a test or something, which apparently would have been good enough for a prescription. Getting a proper diagnosis is a royal pain in the ass, but worth it. You shouldn't be screwing around with these drugs for fun.

renewiltord 6y ago

Yeah, my first adderall came from a friend who uses it to party. I can't see how. It makes me much quieter. Partying on it is something I can't even imagine.

xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
No kidding. I don't even mix it with caffeine because it makes me feel terrible. Alcohol is tolerable, but I still try to avoid mixing stuff. Luckily most of it's out of my system by the evenings anyways.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
wk_end 6y ago
My personal experience was that dextroamphetamine helped my (pretty severe) social anxiety by calming me. I don't know if I'd call it "partying", but I've functioned much better at social gatherings when taking therapeutic doses of it. I've been considering trying to get a prescription for years, but I don't present most typical symptoms of ADD (maybe some inattentive ones?) so I suspect psychiatrists would be reluctant and just try to get me onto SSRIs, which have done nothing for me.
- taneq 6y ago
  Part of what makes it so difficult to diagnose adult ADHD is that most adults come up with a range of adaptive behaviours to try and mitigate the effects of the disorder. So just because you don't look like you have stereotypical ADHD doesn't mean you're not compensating for them - have a think about your various coping mechanisms and whether they're covering for some of those symptoms.
- heavenlyblue 6y ago
  > My personal experience was that dextroamphetamine helped my (pretty severe) social anxiety by calming me. This is what Cocaine, MDMA or alcohol in reasonable doses would do to you. Stimulants generally do this to everyone.
  - wk_end 6y ago
    Yeah, that might check out too. I was sort of responding to the claims 1) that non-ADHD people "bounce off the walls" when using stimulants and/or 2) that ADHD people couldn't use stimulants socially because it calms and focuses them rather than amping them up. Either I'm in the former category, and then claim 1 doesn't really track because it genuinely is a calming sensation for non-ADHD people (sample size 1, myself), or I'm in the latter category and then claim 2 doesn't track because stims really can help ADHD sufferers (same methodology) with socializing.

beaugunderson 6y ago

I see this repeated often and I've never been able to find a source for it. I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. > Stimulant drugs do improve the ability (even without ADHD) to focus and pay attention. One function, which is reliably improved by stimulant medications, is sustained attention, or vigilance. Stimulants improve sustained, focused attention, but “selective attention” and “distractibility” may be worsened, possibly because of a drug induced increase in impulsivity. [1] I currently take a small dose (5mg) of Evekeo with only very mild side effects. On 30mg of Adderall XR I felt some euphoria for the first two weeks and the insomnia was pretty bad for the first week or so. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/

aneemzic 6y ago
>I see this repeated often and I've never been able to find a source for it. I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently. I'm sorry but you clearly haven't even tried to research the subject, so I'm not surprised you don't believe it. People with ADHD have been scientifically proven to have deficiencies in specific neurotransmitters, namely norepinephrine and dopamine. There's multiple studies on ADHD and reward pathways you could find with a simple google search. If you understand how amphetamine based stimulants such as adderall work, you'll know these are 2 of the major neurotransmitters that they target along with serotonin. The entire reason for using these types of medications is to improve availability of neurotransmitters to those with abnormal production that impedes cognitive function. Sure people with normal levels can take stimulants and see effects, since these drugs don't balance levels, they just increase them. In a person with normal dopamine production it's just going to lead to an imbalance, and result in the euphoria feeling they're seeking, whether they want to admit it or not. Edit: the article you posted doesn't even support your argument. It seems in people without ADHD, the medication resulted in increased impulsivity and distractibility.Most likely as a result of abnormal levels of norepinephrine. This is evidence of the drug having literally the opposite of it's intended effect when taken by people without ADHD.
- beaugunderson 6y ago

bootstrapping 6y ago

I'll echo this; I'm a serial founder who was diagnosed with ADHD in his mid-forties. The stimulant medications do not make me "high", do not provide any kind of buzz. Rather, they have a moderating effect. Explaining this requires correcting the misunderstandings in the public realm of how adult ADHD presents, but in nutshell: * The (largely mental) hyperactivity is controllable, that is, I retain my creative ideas generation and interest in new things, but I am no longer governed by it, and * The rarely discussed hyperfocus behaviour (which I frankly regard as a superpower) is more easily snapped out of. To the uninformed, the most paradoxical outcome is that I can take a powerful stimulant medication, lie down in bed, and fall asleep easily, when normally I'd be staring at the ceiling pondering anything from CSS to soldering and unable to sleep for the rush of ideas. This response to medication is not diagnostic, but it is indicative that the medication I have is correct. Moreover it allows me to both retain the two traits that have made me a successful systems maker, but permits a less chaotic engagement with the neurotypical-oriented processes of modern human society, so for example I renew my passport before it expires. I self-medicated with a variety of over-the-counter substances for decades, including nicotine, sugar, and coffee. I am super grateful for the medication since I have now dropped the nicotine and sugar. My psychiatrist believes the condition is a) misnamed, and would be better titled "Attention Difference Disorder", and b) points out that the twin traits of rapid ideas switching and hyperfocus are only a problem in some aspects of engagement with modern society and that in an pre-agrarian society they'd be excellent traits for a hunter.

incomplete 6y ago
i generally hate short, banal replies, but here we go: this. all of this. yes. :)
- ADHDthrow2323 6y ago
  I second that.
  - nullsense 6y ago
    Me too

Diederich 6y ago

I have ADHD, and I've been treating it with meds for over 15 years now. > dosage should not make you feel "high" -- if anything it's almost the opposite Even when I was young and fit, many years before I started taking any meds, my blood pressure and pulse rate were consistently on the high side. I've always had what could be called somewhat of a 'jittery' or 'high strung' personality. In my 30s, I started taking a low dose of Ritalin, and it made a hell of a difference. For the first time in my life, I was actually, fundamentally calm. I gathered some pretty detailed data over a pretty long period of time, and there was an iron-clad correlation: when the Ritalin was in my blood stream, my blood pressure and heart rate were lower. > most ADHD people develop tolerance to medication over long periods of time From the beginning, in order to defend against this possibility, I always took the meds sparingly, only on work days, and not all of them. For a number of years, I organized my schedule around taking the meds three days a week. On those three days, I did most of my deeper, focused software development. On the other work days, I'd focus more on meetings, digging into operational issues, troubleshooting, basically everything except deep focused software development. Prior to starting the meds, I had many successful years in technology at various organizations. That continued after the meds, but with one big difference: while I was able to sit down and focus before the meds, it took an enormous amount of effort and energy. I'd come home from work and immediately nap for an hour before waking up with enough mental energy to go about the rest of my evening. On the meds, my total ability to focus was roughly the same, but it didn't take nearly as much energy. A 9 hour day at work would not leave me drained. I've always had the fortune of having the prescribing docs break up my maximum daily meds into many small dosed tablets, which gave me a lot of flexibility. Thankfully, after all this time, the meds still work very well for me.

nicoburns 6y ago
> A 9 hour day at work would not leave me drained. I'd come home from work and immediately nap for an hour before waking up with enough mental energy to go about the rest of my evening. Isn't that normal? That's certainly been my experience of work over the last decade. And I haven't even been working 9 hour days (more like 7.5 on average).
- 6y ago

hnick 6y ago

Do doctors suggest some kind of cycling regime? I'd imagine I would probably take it on weekdays, then skip it on weekends and holidays. Not sure if that would be enough though.

cwkoss 6y ago
I believe 'weekends off' is a common suggestion from doctors prescribing these types of medications for ADHD

ehwhyreally 6y ago

For me, Ritalin works as it should, just focusing. dextroamphetamine on the other hand gets me all hyped up.

AnthonBerg 6y ago
The difference between people is so subtle and so profound. For me, dextroamphetamine brings a still and composed calmness upon the world. Not euphora, just a calmness.
- rubicon33 6y ago
  How about heart rate and blood pressure? I get the same reaction as you - I'm calm, still, patient. Much more "present" with my wife and far less likely to argue. If I need to plan, or organize something, the initial feeling of "oof" is no longer there. I just do the task. I have however noticed that my heart rate (normally in the low 50s) hovers in the low 60s. I assume (but have not checked) that my blood pressure is also increasing. Both of these things are concerning.
  - AnthonBerg 6y ago
    Blood pressure is normal; Slightly lower than before. Heart rate is up a bit - from about 60 to about 67 resting heart rate - BUT the two years I have been prescribed lisdexamfetamine have brought exceptionally and unusually stressful personal events and I've unfortunately not been able to exercise as much as before. The medicine has certainly helped us cope, however!

rossnordby 6y ago

I've often wondered- are there solid studies on responses to stimulant medications varying over different groups? It's definitely true that there is wide individual variance (modafinil does nothing but disrupt my sleep and make me more sleepy over time, alas), but it is less clear to me that the differences follow cleanly along boundaries like ADHD/not ADHD. I don't have ADHD, but I am prescribed Ritalin to help with a sleep disorder. There's no high, euphoria, or hyperactivity, just a boost to wakefulness and general mental function. Descriptions of the effect from people with ADHD sound familiar, just starting from a different baseline.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago
Not really. It’s true that ADHD patients will likely react differently to stimulants, but the exact differences have been greatly exaggerated online. There are some studies showing that some people respond better to Ritalin than Adderall and vice versa. Prescribers should try switching medications if the patient doesn’t respond. Most people will experience increased focus when first taking stimulants, ADHD or not. Many ADHD patients will experience euphoria with their first doses. The idea that ADHD people have polar opposite responses to medication is largely a myth. Most long-term patients don’t identify with the euphoric or energizing comments because they’ve built a tolerance to those effects. There’s nothing wrong with that, because the therapeutic value doesn’t derive from inducing euphoria. However, a drug-naive college student taking a double dose of Adderall will certainly be buzzing. For a short while. They will then suffer a rebound on the following day or days. There isn’t really a free lunch here. The challenge is that non-ADHD people often try Adderall once, like the effects, and assume a positive response means they have ADHD. That’s blatantly wrong, but it has lead to many people pursuing unnecessary stimulant prescriptions in hopes of feeling that way every day. They are always disappointed when they discover that the long-term effects are very different than those first experience effects.
- xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
  I don't disagree with anything you've written, but none of it matches my experience, which is interesting.
- 6y ago

rustybelt 6y ago

Are you sure this isn't just due to habituation? I was diagnosed ADHD in gradeschool and definitely experienced some euphoric side effects when starting on both Ritalin and Adderall. They quickly subsided after a few days/weeks on the medications but my ADHD brain still reacted that way at first. I tried taking Adderall again as an adult for a few months (after a decade being off the drug) and had a similar experience.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago
Habituation is definitely part of it. Many prescribers will also start patients on very low doses and titration up to minimize the distraction of the euphoric effects. Unfortunately, many mew ADHD patients mistake the initial euphoric effects for the medication “working” and get frustrated when the effects go away. They start chasing bigger prescriptions, shopping around for prescribers willing to give higher doses, doubling up doses and so on. Everyone going into stimulant treatment should know that excessive stimulant dosing can worsen focus. If you’ve ever seen someone abusing stimulants, you’ll know exactly what this means. People on too high of a dose tend to be overly energetic, or overly focused on the wrong things. Ideally, you want to be on the lowest dose you can get away with. Contrary to what is often repeated online, it’s best to take the medication continuously rather than skipping days. The medication should blend into the background while you work on improving ADHD. Don’t fall into the trap of leaning on the stimulant to solve everything for you.
- username90 6y ago
  > Contrary to what is often repeated online, it’s best to take the medication continuously rather than skipping days. I don't like being on stimulants though. When I'm on stimulants I can't just let my thoughts wander and do whatever feels right at the moment, and I really like that part. If I don't have work to do I greatly prefer not being on them. The only time I feel the need to abuse them is when I am over burdened with work and I feel I need the extra focus to complete tasks. At those times I try to do the opposite, quit taking the medicine and calm down and tell people that I don't have time to do the tasks now.

null000 6y ago

Counter-anecdote: I was diagnosed sixish months ago, prescribed medication about 3 months ago. The meds don't have the same high of alcohol or weed, but there's definitely an occasional deep sense of calm and wellness - one that's hard not to want, being my chronically depressed self. Definitely enough to set off my "never abuse this, it will end badly" mental alarm Otherwise though, it checks all the usual boxes - way easier to sit still and be quiet, way easier to do the thing I intended to do when I sat down to do it, way easier to get in and out of focus. Also improved my sleep schedule a surprising amount - between it and melatonin, I've moved from 6am-3pm to ~12am-8:30am, which is wildly outside any of the expectations I've seen set for pharmaceutical remedies, and puts me firmly in 'able to hold a normal adult job without killing yourself through sleep deprevation' territory. Honestly almost annoying it has such a positive effect since the practical difference between that and addiction are pretty minimal on a short-term basis. I'm deeply uncomfortable with the idea of having to go without it or something filling the same brain-holes for a long period of time precisely because I'm basically worthless without it, in a way I didn't really come to appreciate until after starting medication.

rubicon33 6y ago
> occasional deep sense of calm and wellness I've always assumed that this is the "right" response? When people talk about stimulant medication and ADHD, the reactions tend to fall into two categories: Hypes you up, stimulates you, makes you talk fast and move fast, etc... Or calms you down, soothes you, allows you to think clearly, methodically, etc.... I bring this up because it's concerning to me that the "right" response is setting off "never abuse this" alarms. Is it the right response, or is it not? Personally, I get that same sense of calm and wellbeing. It's why the drug works. My mind quiets down, my ability to hold attention increases dramatically, and my sense of well being ensues. I speak slower and calmer. I am less likely to argue with my spouse. Yes, I feel "good" but I've always assumed that's what its like to feel normal. Normal people get their prefrontal cortex for free, mine is unlocked through a drug.
- afarviral 6y ago
  I think film and TV are partly responsible for this idea. From experience/observation euphoria (sense of wellbeing) is the primary effect of stimulants, not acting hyper. The rest are just a soup of possible effects that vary wildly.

steve_adams_86 6y ago

I tend to take weeks or months between prescriptions. It's not addictive in the slightest for me. If my family didn't benefit as much from me taking it, I would never take it again.

throwaway289283 6y ago

> For folks without ADHD, you should know that stimulants, like Ritalin and Adderall, do not usually cause the same response as in non-ADHD people. I can confirm; I have ADHD and this even applies to stronger stimulants like cocaine. Cocaine doesn't do much for me, so I never understood why my friends were always bouncing off the walls while I was just chilling, like "what's the big deal with this drug". I didn't get it until I was diagnosed with ADHD and understood how our brains are wired differently.

xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
Yes, I have a good friend who stopped taking prescription medicine for his severe ADHD long ago. In school he self-medicated with lots of drugs, and the drugs never affected him the same way as others. Now he just smokes a ton of weed everyday, but you would never know it, he's very normal, stable. Off weed? He's a mess, bouncing off the walls.
throwawaydhd 6y ago
Same here. In fact, when the psychiatrist was taking history in my initial screening, when I mentioned I'd taken cocaine but been disappointed with its lack of euphoric effect despite my friends enjoying it (it just made my face numb), she said that sort of previous reaction to stimulants was common in her ADHD diagnosed patients. When I started on Vyvanse after diagnosis, the biggest effect I noticed at first was that my mind just felt quite calm compared to usual. No high or anything like that, just .. not as many uncontrollable thoughts rushing around my mind like they usually do.

sizzle 6y ago

My fear is developing alzheimers or parkinsons disease messing with these dopamine receptors for decades, are we screwing ourselves over long term? I fear developing early onset dementia too. I saw there was a study that linked neurodegenerative disease to long term dopamine stimulants. Can anyone break down the neuroscience for me and any meta-analyses studies on ADHD amph stims effect on early onset neurodegenerative disease?

username90 6y ago
Looks like they actually protects against Parkinson's. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20089748v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20089748v... I found no relationships with Alzheimer's. The only big negative found seems to be blood pressure, but you can manage that just by keeping your weight in check and exercising regularly. I take medication and my blood pressure is at normal levels, I go for regular checkups.
- slaymaker1907 6y ago
  Thank you for the link. When I started seeing my current doctor, they tried scare mongering by claiming stimulants can cause Parkinsons. There is a study to back this up [1,2], but I was skeptical of it since they didn't seem to control for the fact that someone with ADHD but not on stimulants could either have less intense ADHD or perhaps have some other confounding condition. The study authors actually mention: "The association of ADHD patients prescribed psychostimulants with higher risk of diseases of the basal ganglia and cerebellum may reflect a more severe ADHD phenotype rather than a direct association between prescribed stimulant use and basal ganglia or cerebellum disorders."[2] It's somewhat encouraging to see that this seems to be true and increased chance of Parkinson's is likely due to the severity of ADHD and not due to medication which helps people with ADHD be functional. [1]: https://healthcare.utah.edu/publicaffairs/news/2018/09/adhd-parkinsons.php https://healthcare.utah.edu/publicaffairs/news/2018/09/adhd-... [2]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30209407/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30209407/

hntrader 6y ago

Second the comment on Ritalin among non-ADHD. Couldn't tell the difference between that and illicit speed on the street. Dry mouth, manic, euphoric.

treeman79 6y ago

Same experience. Per doctor, people with adhd don’t find adderall. addicting. My experience aligns with this. When I take one I feel normal. Like how I should be in society. Unfortunately it causes me vascular inflammation as headaches. So had to give it up. I use a non stimulant one now. Seems to be helping. My daughter just started Vyvanse. Report from teachers is that her behavior is dramatically better.

stared 6y ago

I have ADHD, and I use Modafinil or Armodafinil at low doses (50+50mg or 75mg, respectively). It does not make "high" in any sense. It does not create dependency (unlike, say, coffee). If I don't take it (and I often don't), there are no negative effects, just a lack of the positive. Metylofenidat helps me a bit, but it gives "deadline-like focus". Focus, but rush, with increased anxiety. (Ar)modafinil gives sniper-like focus. Decreased anxiety and emotional reactiveness, while still maintaining full emotional clarity. Non-deadline flow. The first time I took Modafinil, I didn't feel like "on drugs". I felt the opposite - for the first time distractions (like checking FB every a few minutes) were not dopamine hits I craved. I understood a lot about "other people" and things people kept telling me for two decades. It seems that being less distractible was an everyday experience. The only downside I saw is that it needs to be taken well before bedtime (as in: morning, noon) and that it makes one way less social (immunity to jokes, increased sensory sensitivity, "OK, but what's your point" approach to conversations, etc). Readings: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/02/16/nootropics-survey-results-and-analysis/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/02/16/nootropics-survey-resu... and https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil

chasd00 6y ago

For me, the medicine (lowish dose of adderall) gives me a sense of peace Without it my mind races and the hyper-everything is exhausting. My wife has tried it and it had the opposite effect on her. For me, the stimulant is very calming.

throwawayadhd2 6y ago

I have been prescribed with methylphenidate last year. I don’t think I have ADHD but i want to take ADHD drugs to help with focusing. So I think I can be categorized as the Non-ADHD people. I definitely feel an euphoric high when I take it, although it is less intense than MDMA, marijuana, or even alcohol. You are correct to point out it doesn’t really help me focus more or improve performance. Its smart drug reputation is really misleading. I found it less potent than coffee, which makes me very focused. It’s most noticeable effectiveness is the suppression of my appetite and sleeplessness. When I am on it, I don’t feel hungry or sleepy at all.

throwawayadhd2 6y ago
One of the reasons I wanted to start using them is I have over the years built too high of a tolerance and reliance on caffeine. I couldn’t work without drinking an insane amount of coffee, which makes me sleepless. I plan to alternate between adhd drugs and caffeine.

still_grokking 6y ago

I would question that there is a substantial difference. Amphetamine does not necessary make you "high", even without having ADHD. Only if you're not used to it there is this "bouncing off the fucking walls" effect. But it goes away if you know this effect already. Than amphetamines can increase focus, and make you chill instead of hyper-active. That's why people take it to study for example actually. After a few days of continual use only the increased focus effect stays. But it doesn't have almost any effect on one's mood any more. Actually it can even cause a significant drop in mood. Still it's addictive. Like tee or coffee, which won't make you feel full of energy any more when your addicted, it just becomes a necessity to "function". You can show all physical symptoms of "being sky-high on speed" like pupil dilation and such, but just go to sleep for example. I don't question that the effects of stimulants like amphetamines may help overcome some medical conditions, only that I don't think that the effects are much different in otherwise healthy individuals.

fossuser 6y ago
This is my position too - I’m pretty skeptical of the “ADHD people have a different response to stimulants”. Stimulants help everyone focus, it’s why people drink coffee. Everyone would perform better on a low dose Ritalin. I think people just rationalize a special need for them. Erdos famously took amphetamines. I’d buy people have variable baselines, but I think everyone would benefit from stimulants if they could take them.

jklinger410 6y ago

>I let some non-ADHD friends try a low dose of Ritalin when I had switched off of it and had some left over, and they were bouncing off the fucking walls -- I would strongly not recommend taking stimulants unless medically necessary. >For people with ADHD, they can be truly life saving. For recreational use, avoid. Just so you are aware, amphetamines are and have been used widely, and successfully, by people without ADD/ADHD. It has addictive qualities for sure, but I appreciate that people are allowed to try whatever substances they would like to try.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

> A lot of comments here are warning about the addictive properties of stimulant medications. Beyond everything else you've said which is all correct and reflects my experience, I want to point out something that doesn't seem well known in the general fabric of the ADHD topic: Addiction and substance abuse are a common trait in adult undiagnosed/untreated cases. Alcohol abuse, amphetamine abuse, you name it. I can speak from personal experience here: before I understood I had a real chemical imbalance affecting my whole life, I had used and abused alcohol to the point it significantly damaged my life, and some important relationships. I can't say for sure that wouldn't have happened if I'd been diagnosed and treated earlier, but I can say the knee-jerk reaction about medically prescribed treatment that has very little risk of abuse/addiction is inappropriate given the outcome that's much more likely without treatment.

matheusmoreira 6y ago

> ADHD people develop tolerance to medication over long periods of time Yes! I took Vyvanse for a little over a year. It was the best thing ever at first. The effects got progressively weaker until I could no longer justify using it due to the cardiovascular risk. Now I only take it before a high pressure test or performance. Wish I could go back in time and take that drug again as if it was the first time... > The proper medication and dosage should not make you feel "high" This high is correlated with how fast the stimulant enters the brain. Drugs that enter the brain quickly and in large quantities often give this subjective experience and they're more addictive because of it. Route of administration can influence this. Safer drugs with lower abuse potential are designed to be released steadily in lower quantities over a long period of time. Vyvanse is just an Adderall that gets released slowly over a long period of time. Therefore it has lower abuse potential than Adderall.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago

> The proper medication and dosage should not make you feel "high" -- if anything it's almost the opposite. You get some clarity, an ability to direct your focus without a thousand distractions a minute, and perhaps even a sense of time. Is this not aso a common effect on the non a.d.h.d. sufferer,? which is why it is so commonly taken on exams, as a means to increase performance. > For people with ADHD, they can be truly life saving. For recreational use, avoid. Avoid it more than any other recreational drug?

samatman 6y ago

Real talk: the difference between medicinal and recreational use of amphetamines is about 70 to 95mg. Take 5-30 mg of Dexedrine, you'll be focused, a bit euphoric, maybe some jaw tension and anorexia. You'll get a lot done. Mild crash? It's a risk. Smoke a point of meth and you'll be taking apart your toaster in no time. That's 100mg for those of you who grew up on the right side of the tracks. I'm diagnosed ADHD, by the way. I prefer modafinil over amphetamines, I find the high milder, the wakefulness promotion is a nice bonus, it lasts longer too. But this is, to be frank, what we used to call an old wives' tale. There is no medical basis for saying that stimulants hit ADHD brains differently. It seems to be a combination of wishful thinking, and doctors choosing to not let the general public know that low doses of stimulants will improve their focus and executive function as well. Honestly I think that's a pity. Stimulants are a useful adjunct for productive work, at a reasonable dose. America did just fine, for decades, with de-facto legal amphetamine, nor has criminalizing it done much of anything to blunt the epidemic of abuse. The difference between ADHD and the elusive "normal brain" is that a lot of us need our meds to function. I've taken a few months off, even a few years at one point, and looking back it was a disaster. I still take weekends off whenever I can, and the lowest dose I think I can get away with.

Baeocystin 6y ago
Scott Alexander recently wrote about the effects of different amphetamines, which are something he has long clinical experience with in his practice. It is well-worth the read for the curious (the history of how Adderall came to be was a genuine surprise), and it echoes much of what samatman said. https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

> For myself, taking even high doses of a Adderall regularly produces no result -- might as well be taking sugar pills. I have to take them periodically (a few times a week at most) to get any sort of benefit. My girlfriend is on a slow release ADHD medication, once a day; for her, it has to be a daily thing because else it just stops working. Is adderall a slow release one? May be more beneficial. That said, what effect are you expecting? She describes the main effect of her medication to be a mood stabilizer.

hda111 6y ago

ADHD medications can have severe side effects like psychosis. I would also recommend to avoid them if possible. I myself don’t have ADHD but I know several psychosis cases from people diagnosed with ADHD. It makes a lot of sense that this medication is hard to get in most countries.