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> We want to be the type of person that helps someone. But saying yes carries a cost. One that’s often paid in the days, weeks, or even years in the future. Wha

> We want to be the type of person that helps someone. But saying yes carries a cost. One that’s often paid in the days, weeks, or even years in the future. What starts as a single meeting becomes a weekly one... There's a delicate balance here, because saying "no" often carries a cost too, it's just less visible than the cost of saying "yes." Saying "no" too often can mean missing opportunities for relationships, projects, promotions, vacations, etc. But since we never see those things, it's easy to think saying "no" was free.

tachyonbeam 6y ago
That's probably true, but I can tell you that in my previous two jobs, I said "no" a lot, and I basically managed to maneuver into a spot where my boss let me essentially work on what I wanted. I got raises and commendations. I was surprised, but it's like, to some extent, the more assertive and confident you are, the more they respect you. My personal experience has been that when it comes to getting promotions/raises, being liked by your coworkers (including your boss) is 10X more important than the amount of output you produce. You should try to be on friendly terms with your boss... And of course, if a friend asks you to do something, sometimes you say yes, sometimes you say "I would like to help, but I'm feeling saturated with the projects I already have going on right now, to be honest", and a good friend/manager understands that. An extra dimension to this is that you don't necessarily need to get promoted in your current job. In the software industry, it's easy to move from one job to another, and when you move laterally, you can often negotiate a better salary. Again, here, being liked by your coworkers is particularly important. If your coworkers like you, they will give you good referrals. If you can get a referral from your previous boss, that speaks volumes.
- throwaway713 6y ago
  > being liked by your coworkers (including your boss) is 10X more important than the amount of output you produce Is this really true? I can think of people I like very well as a person, but they are extremely unproductive and I would not want to have them on a project with me. On the flip side, there are people that I would not say I am friends with (not enemies either, just neutral interactions) who do an excellent job at getting work done and who I have given very positive peer feedback to. I always hope that things like promotions aren’t popularity contests, but I never can tell for sure how much that’s the case, particularly at higher levels of management...
  - belval 6y ago
    10X is a huge factor, I would say it's about half-half. One thing to keep in mind is that these things are not exclusive. Having a good relationship with your superior usually means more trust, better projects and much better communications which is key to actually getting what you need to fulfill your assignments. It works with both extremes. If your work output is awesome but you have a harder time with inter-personal relationship then of course in the greater picture you will be left out because people just won't come to you.
  - violetgarden 6y ago
    Unfortunately, unless you have someone to vouch for you, it kind of can be a popularity contest. This is from a corporate point of view, where lower managers have to appeal up the chain to fight for promotions for their people. It’s much easier for the higher ups to grant promotions to the people they’ve heard of.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    Yes, but context is important. Most people separate personal likes from office likes to at least some extent. Part of being liked in the office is being seen as productive enough. You can like someone personally and hate them on the job. You can hate someone personally and still like them on the job.
  - jimbokun 6y ago
    "...but they are extremely unproductive and I would not want to have them on a project with me." So clearly you don't like them, as a coworker, even though you like them as a friend.
- yters 6y ago
  In one job I was a tech lead, and said no to my boss a lot to maintain my team's focus. We ended up delivering, the boss was pleased, my teammates were happy, and I got a raise.
zentiggr 6y ago
Actually, i think it's likely that almost everyone at least unconsciously realizes the costs of no's, and that it's never really free. Hence the difficulty with actually saying no.
gabea 6y ago
I agree with this sentiment. As with almost everything in life the answer is not to have too much of any one thing. Moderately saying yes and no will help you go further in my humble opinion. The discussion should focus on 1.) Understanding how much you say yes vs. no and 2.) If you say yes far too often or no far too often here are ways to bring you back to balance.
hinkley 6y ago
You want the type of person who helps someone help themselves. Part of that, often overlooked, is doing a summary at the end explaining what were the concrete steps taken to get the result (if you have to poke around a bit to find the right spot, that can be disorienting). It's also giving people tools with guard rails built in so they can trust doing the task themselves. You don't want people who get off on owning a workflow, and are super-helpful but involved in perpetuity. There's a fine line between 'let Tom and Harry do it because they seem to enjoy it while I don't,' and 'everyone thinks Tom and Harry's solution is bullshit and I want nothing to do with it.' The latter leads to codependency, and these people are toxic to productivity, accidentally or intentionally.

tachyonbeam 6y ago

That's probably true, but I can tell you that in my previous two jobs, I said "no" a lot, and I basically managed to maneuver into a spot where my boss let me essentially work on what I wanted. I got raises and commendations. I was surprised, but it's like, to some extent, the more assertive and confident you are, the more they respect you. My personal experience has been that when it comes to getting promotions/raises, being liked by your coworkers (including your boss) is 10X more important than the amount of output you produce. You should try to be on friendly terms with your boss... And of course, if a friend asks you to do something, sometimes you say yes, sometimes you say "I would like to help, but I'm feeling saturated with the projects I already have going on right now, to be honest", and a good friend/manager understands that. An extra dimension to this is that you don't necessarily need to get promoted in your current job. In the software industry, it's easy to move from one job to another, and when you move laterally, you can often negotiate a better salary. Again, here, being liked by your coworkers is particularly important. If your coworkers like you, they will give you good referrals. If you can get a referral from your previous boss, that speaks volumes.

throwaway713 6y ago
> being liked by your coworkers (including your boss) is 10X more important than the amount of output you produce Is this really true? I can think of people I like very well as a person, but they are extremely unproductive and I would not want to have them on a project with me. On the flip side, there are people that I would not say I am friends with (not enemies either, just neutral interactions) who do an excellent job at getting work done and who I have given very positive peer feedback to. I always hope that things like promotions aren’t popularity contests, but I never can tell for sure how much that’s the case, particularly at higher levels of management...
- belval 6y ago
  10X is a huge factor, I would say it's about half-half. One thing to keep in mind is that these things are not exclusive. Having a good relationship with your superior usually means more trust, better projects and much better communications which is key to actually getting what you need to fulfill your assignments. It works with both extremes. If your work output is awesome but you have a harder time with inter-personal relationship then of course in the greater picture you will be left out because people just won't come to you.
- violetgarden 6y ago
  Unfortunately, unless you have someone to vouch for you, it kind of can be a popularity contest. This is from a corporate point of view, where lower managers have to appeal up the chain to fight for promotions for their people. It’s much easier for the higher ups to grant promotions to the people they’ve heard of.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Yes, but context is important. Most people separate personal likes from office likes to at least some extent. Part of being liked in the office is being seen as productive enough. You can like someone personally and hate them on the job. You can hate someone personally and still like them on the job.
- jimbokun 6y ago
  "...but they are extremely unproductive and I would not want to have them on a project with me." So clearly you don't like them, as a coworker, even though you like them as a friend.
yters 6y ago
In one job I was a tech lead, and said no to my boss a lot to maintain my team's focus. We ended up delivering, the boss was pleased, my teammates were happy, and I got a raise.

zentiggr 6y ago

Actually, i think it's likely that almost everyone at least unconsciously realizes the costs of no's, and that it's never really free. Hence the difficulty with actually saying no.

gabea 6y ago

I agree with this sentiment. As with almost everything in life the answer is not to have too much of any one thing. Moderately saying yes and no will help you go further in my humble opinion. The discussion should focus on 1.) Understanding how much you say yes vs. no and 2.) If you say yes far too often or no far too often here are ways to bring you back to balance.

hinkley 6y ago

You want the type of person who helps someone help themselves. Part of that, often overlooked, is doing a summary at the end explaining what were the concrete steps taken to get the result (if you have to poke around a bit to find the right spot, that can be disorienting). It's also giving people tools with guard rails built in so they can trust doing the task themselves. You don't want people who get off on owning a workflow, and are super-helpful but involved in perpetuity. There's a fine line between 'let Tom and Harry do it because they seem to enjoy it while I don't,' and 'everyone thinks Tom and Harry's solution is bullshit and I want nothing to do with it.' The latter leads to codependency, and these people are toxic to productivity, accidentally or intentionally.