5 ms·

The problems is revolutions are people-based. No matter how many decades you keep American tanks in various middle eastern countries, if the people don't want

by VLM 6y ago

The problems is revolutions are people-based. No matter how many decades you keep American tanks in various middle eastern countries, if the people don't want to change, they won't. Consider if China makes a better offer for the country than the US State Dept, which seems likely based on historical performance of the US State Dept. After the USA blows up all their old tanks, cementing anti-US hatred for generations, they can buy nice new Chinese ones after the treaty with China is signed.

baybal2 6y ago
This is very much a description of the fiasco US encountered in Iraq. The battle was a total triumph, but aftermath a tragedy, and mainly so for mind boggling incompetence of post-war Washington policy effectively instigating a civil war, then backing one side in it, then another, and then showing a middle finger to both, and walking away. All of this could've been avoided under different leadership.
- tomp 6y ago
  > All of this could've been avoided under different leadership. What do you mean? The war in Iraq has outlasted 3 US presidents, so clearly "different leadership" just doesn't work in practice. IMO the US should completely change the modus operandi. "Invade & install new regime & call it democratic & steal oil" just isn't a good proposition for the local population. Unless the US can improve the proposition (to match China's "we give you lots of money and improve your quality of life") foreign military interventions just won't work.
  - 24gttghh 6y ago
    I'm going to guess they are talking about different leadership from the one which started the Iraq war.
  - DSingularity 6y ago
    Please emphasize the "steal oil" part. Im pretty sure that the liberators became invaders once the local population figured out that OIL was the #1 target.
  - adventured 6y ago
    What oil did the US steal from Iraq? I've been asking that question for about 15 years now, when people casually toss such empty claims out there. I've never once received a facts-based answer (for obvious reasons). Iraq was about Russia, not oil. The same thing Syria and Libya are about. Trying to limit or strip Russian influence out of the Middle East. It's two major powers going at eachother via proxy, the same thing that has been going on all around the world between the US and Russia since WW2. Vietnam also wasn't about oil. Afghanistan also wasn't about oil. The US lost over a trillion dollars in Iraq trying to keep the two major factions from killing eachother. There is no amount of oil that could ever come out of Iraq for the US that will make up for that.
    - sandworm101 6y ago
      >> Iraq was about Russia, not oil Not Russia, Iran. Iraq was/is a proxy war between Iran and the Saudis. Russia and America are distant twice-removed cousins to a longstanding family dispute.
    - sambull 6y ago
      It was called production sharing, but ExxonMobil and Chevron from via the KRG. Seems very similar to the bull billing the china shop owner.
    - holycannoli 6y ago
      >Iraq was about Russia You are entirely wrong. Iraq was about Israel. The neoconservatives in the US pushing the invasion are Zionists and the entirety of US intervention in the ME is about strengthening Israel's position relative to the countries surrounding it. Sorry it took you 15 years to find the correct answer. You don't need to spend trillions invading countries just to get access to their oil, you can literally just buy it from them.
  - jjk166 6y ago
    Almost the entirety of the Iraq war as well as all major decisions which affected the outcome were under the Bush administration. In 2008, the Bush administration agreed to withdraw all US troops from Iraq, and the Obama administration completed it. While US forces have returned to Iraq repeatedly since then to deal with various issues such as ISIS which are intimately linked to the mishandling of the Iraq war, there have been a number of other developments in the middle east such as the arab spring and the Saudi-Iranian cold war which are much more proximate to these separate conflicts.
Mauricebranagh 6y ago
Ah customer versions of knockoffs of soviet tanks then :-)
jacquesm 6y ago
Besides that, the past years have shown the American government to be a fickle partner at best who will abandon their allies on a moments notice. This is not something that the rest of the world will easily forget.

by VLM 6y ago

baybal2 6y ago

This is very much a description of the fiasco US encountered in Iraq. The battle was a total triumph, but aftermath a tragedy, and mainly so for mind boggling incompetence of post-war Washington policy effectively instigating a civil war, then backing one side in it, then another, and then showing a middle finger to both, and walking away. All of this could've been avoided under different leadership.

tomp 6y ago
> All of this could've been avoided under different leadership. What do you mean? The war in Iraq has outlasted 3 US presidents, so clearly "different leadership" just doesn't work in practice. IMO the US should completely change the modus operandi. "Invade & install new regime & call it democratic & steal oil" just isn't a good proposition for the local population. Unless the US can improve the proposition (to match China's "we give you lots of money and improve your quality of life") foreign military interventions just won't work.
- 24gttghh 6y ago
  I'm going to guess they are talking about different leadership from the one which started the Iraq war.
- DSingularity 6y ago
  Please emphasize the "steal oil" part. Im pretty sure that the liberators became invaders once the local population figured out that OIL was the #1 target.
- adventured 6y ago
  What oil did the US steal from Iraq? I've been asking that question for about 15 years now, when people casually toss such empty claims out there. I've never once received a facts-based answer (for obvious reasons). Iraq was about Russia, not oil. The same thing Syria and Libya are about. Trying to limit or strip Russian influence out of the Middle East. It's two major powers going at eachother via proxy, the same thing that has been going on all around the world between the US and Russia since WW2. Vietnam also wasn't about oil. Afghanistan also wasn't about oil. The US lost over a trillion dollars in Iraq trying to keep the two major factions from killing eachother. There is no amount of oil that could ever come out of Iraq for the US that will make up for that.
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    >> Iraq was about Russia, not oil Not Russia, Iran. Iraq was/is a proxy war between Iran and the Saudis. Russia and America are distant twice-removed cousins to a longstanding family dispute.
  - sambull 6y ago
    It was called production sharing, but ExxonMobil and Chevron from via the KRG. Seems very similar to the bull billing the china shop owner.
  - holycannoli 6y ago
    >Iraq was about Russia You are entirely wrong. Iraq was about Israel. The neoconservatives in the US pushing the invasion are Zionists and the entirety of US intervention in the ME is about strengthening Israel's position relative to the countries surrounding it. Sorry it took you 15 years to find the correct answer. You don't need to spend trillions invading countries just to get access to their oil, you can literally just buy it from them.
- jjk166 6y ago
  Almost the entirety of the Iraq war as well as all major decisions which affected the outcome were under the Bush administration. In 2008, the Bush administration agreed to withdraw all US troops from Iraq, and the Obama administration completed it. While US forces have returned to Iraq repeatedly since then to deal with various issues such as ISIS which are intimately linked to the mishandling of the Iraq war, there have been a number of other developments in the middle east such as the arab spring and the Saudi-Iranian cold war which are much more proximate to these separate conflicts.

Mauricebranagh 6y ago

Ah customer versions of knockoffs of soviet tanks then :-)

jacquesm 6y ago

Besides that, the past years have shown the American government to be a fickle partner at best who will abandon their allies on a moments notice. This is not something that the rest of the world will easily forget.